View Full Version : Stemple owners.... Where are you...?
SubGunFan
02-12-2005, 09:48 PM
Stemple owners, where are you....???
Lets hear about your experiences with the Mark I (original from John Stemple), Mark II (Ohio/Burgress guns), and the Mark III (back to John Stemple as I understand it...).
Which ones have you fired...?
Which one do you like the best...?
Me, I will cast the first vote for the original MkI. Granted it has its flaws, but it is a STEMPLE in its purest form (before all those "modifications" on the MkIIs & IIIs).
I admit, I have nevered fired a MkII or MkIII, but I hear the MkIIs are "junk". If you have fired a MkII, please post your thoughts here.......
Title of this thread should be "STEMPLE OWNERS UNITE!" ;)
Well, I guess my favorite version is the Mk III since that's what I've got!
Never shot any of the other Mk's, I think what I like best about the Mk III is, unmodified GG mags, and a push button mag release. I've heard stories about Stemples horrendous trigger pull, but mines not that bad, granted it ain't a 2-stage match trigger either.
As far as the stocks go I think all 3 versions have a pretty crappy stock, but I guess they work.
I don't know who built mine, but it came from Jim Burgess.
SubGunFan
02-15-2005, 10:03 PM
CIB:
I understand the heavy triggers were a "problem" on the MkIIs (Ohio/Burgess guns).
You said your MkIII was made by Jim Burgess. When did you buy your Stemple?
As I understand "Stemple History" (others please correct me if I am wrong), John Stemple designed, built and sold the MkIs. Maybe after not selling enough, he sold the registered tubes to Jim Burgess. Burgess added some mods (mainly the safety notch and different mag release), and thus, the MkII is born. It is reported the MkIIs have a very heavy trigger pull (and the ugly hand grip...). Next, John Stemple purchased the remaining registered tubes back from Burgess and started making the MkIIIs and the 76/49 (7.62x25).
Bottom line..... Are the MkIIIs "Burgess guns" or "Stemple guns"?
John Stemple.... Where are you?
O.K. here is the version I heard! LOL! They may all be different.
The tubes were in Burgess's possession, but he did'nt actually own them, he was selling and building them for Stemple, for a commission. Apparantly, w/o Stemples knowledge he started building the 76 protos to be sold for more money. Stemple threw a fit, and took Burgess to court. Don't know what they got worked out, again that's all internet hearsay.
FWIW, I bought mine in group buy from Keith at Gulf Coast Armory, but when the gun was shipped to John Norrell it came directly from Jim Burgess. I bought it in early 2003.
SubGunFan
02-15-2005, 10:46 PM
CIB:
Man, that's new info to me.... thanks.
Subcontracting the r-tubes sounds like "a plan" to me with all the NFA/BATF regs.
Maybe the only difference between a MkII and MkIII is the mag release (same as the MkIs) and stock (and the improved trigger pull)....?
FYI: I bought my MkI in 1988.
SubGunFan
That's the best I can remember it as it went round on Subguns, I'm sure I've forgotten something or left something out, I would'nt take it as actual fact either.
I do seem to remember Jim making the comment once on subguns though that the Mk III trigger was inspired by the trigger on the M3A1 Grease gun though.
Shit, in 1988 I was a Junior in High School!
SubGunFan
02-17-2005, 06:54 PM
CIB:
1988 was the year of my last FA purchase. I bought my first one (MAC M11/380) in 1981.
FYI: In 1988, the Stemple cost $500. Now what are they... $3,500?
True, buying FAs now cost a "pile of money", but with the limited supply and increasing demand, the prices keep going UP & UP.
SubGunFan
soflasmg
02-17-2005, 08:18 PM
Me want pitchers.
Pic of the Mk III.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/CIB/The%20Armory/Stemple.jpg
SubGunFan
02-17-2005, 09:36 PM
The original Stemple......
I gave $1,660 for mine. I'm wishing I would have bought more that first year. Alot of stuff has doubled. When I bought my Stemple, Robert Naess had 6 LaFrance underfolder Transferable AK's for $6,500 each. Wish I had bought all of them.
SubGunFan
02-17-2005, 09:43 PM
CIB:
What keeps the MkIII wire stock from flapping around?
In the pic above, is the wire stock all the way in...?
Also, is the "long" reach from the grip to the trigger comfortable?
SubGunFan
SubGunFan
02-17-2005, 09:46 PM
CIB:
What year did you buy your MkIII Stemple?
Nothing locks the stock when it's collasped, there is a slot on the stock that locks it open.
I hav'ent noticed the distance to the trigger being uncomfortable.
bloomautomatic
02-23-2005, 12:20 PM
mine is a Mk II, purchased from Stemple, but the transfer had to go through Burgess. My check for $1200 was made out to and cashed by John Stemple. When it came in, Burgess tacked another $200 on to it, claiming a price increase. It was transferrerd by my dealer in PA.
Mine wouldn't eject when I got it. The ejector didn't stick out far enough to catch the edge of the casing. Told John and he brought me another ejector at the creek. Tried that one, still no luck. Ended up having to enlarge/oval the hole so it would reach further into the bolt face. Basically, the screw hole was drilled and tapped too low on the receiver. Runs like a top now. I like mine, kinda heavy compared with other subguns - like the STEn - but that helps with recoil and control. It was the best value at the time, and it was what I could afford.
Another problem was the bolt face was getting peened over and barrel wouldn't slide out. I ended up chambering the outside edge of the bolt face and it hasn't been a problem since.
I'd like to get a .22 kit for it. Talked with John about that. He told me that he doesn't have a source for hi-cap mags that will fit it, and if he were to do one, it would be a complete one-way conversion not just a drop in kit. Claims the drop-in kits tend to be too unreliable.
The story with the Burgess thing I heard was; Stemple dropped his Class 2 manufacturer license, so the tubes had to be transferred from his name. He transferrred them to Burgess to act as the holding company. What it came down to is Burgess was acting as if they belonged to him, when Stemple claims they were actually his property, but just in Burgess' name.
Vince
I guess my Stemple is a Mk III....it has the AR grip and wire stock but has the old style mag release which is located under the gun.
I bought mine in 2002 (Approved 9/11/02) along with the Burgess suppressor (BTW......That damn Burgess suppressor is one heavy bastard!). The gun was very finicky with mags until I figured out how to tweak them. But, with properly tweaked mags, it ran fairly well. Recently I bought the 9mm kit for it directly from John Stemple. I have yet to get that damn thing running right. I have made several different ejectors for it in the process. Some good has come from all the ejector work though.....The handmade ejector I have in it now makes the 45acp setup run like a top!!!
As far as getting the 9mm kit running....my next plan is to borrow the HI-Speed video recorder from the office, record the firing/malfunctions, and then slow the tape down to try and diagnose the problem.
Anyone get their 9mm kit running????
Hey amn, I tried for 2-3 weeks to get the damned 9mm conversion to run. Finally sent it back for a refund, it never did make through a complete mag.
CIB,
I thought about sending it back but I think it's now become a MISSION!
I'll get that damn thing running....even if it kills me!!!:heavy
SubGunFan
02-23-2005, 06:14 PM
First... bloomautomatic, welcome to the UZITalk board, and greetings from one Stemple owner to another.
I think you have your part terminology backwards. The EXTRACTOR pulls (extracts) the case from the chamber. The EJECTOR kicks (ejects) the case from the gun.
Does your Stemple have the wooden grips and the safety notch and requires modified M3 mags? If you can, please post some pictures of your Stemple. When did you get your Stemple?
On the bolt and barrel peening problem. On my MkI the bolt face was not damaged, but the barrel got peened and was hard to remove. I filed the outside edge of the barrel to remove the "flaring", and now I check the barrel every few hundred rounds. The best thing to do is reduce the number of times the bolt is hitting an empty chamber as much as possible.
SubGunFan
A note on the Barrel Peening issure. I added a .035 washer to the barrel stop and it pretty much stopped the barrel peening though the extractor still hits fairly hard. There is a guy who posts on subguns, that goes by Merle in OR who provided this fix to me. I can dig up his E-mail if anyone is interested.
Hey good luck with that damned 9mm kit! Aggravatin' damned things. :)
Yep.....mine did the same thing after a few hundred rounds. Took a file to it like ya'll did and that fixed it. I also thought about adding a washer to the barrel so as to not allow the barrel to stick so far into the tube.....try to keep it flush with the trunnion. I didn't have a washer on hand that would work and soon 'forgot' about it.
How are your extractors holding up? I see this as the weakest component in the gun. Anyone know a source for spares....John Stemple maybe?
Sure wish someone would tell me the 'Magic Trick' to get this 9mm kit running!!!
Hey guys about the time Merle got the washer for me, I asked him about the extractors, he told me that J.R. Stemple told him it was just a STEn extractor. I've talked to Stemple and he does have parts for them if you need any.
SubGunFan
02-23-2005, 09:49 PM
Thanks for that info CIB. I have a Sten MkIII extractor and I will check it.
I am still using the original extractor, but 3 of the 5 Stemples our group bought back 1988 had to have the extractors replaced. KNOCK ON WOOD I got one of the good ones...... :)
SubGunFan
SubGunFan,
Please do try the Sten extractor and let us know how it runs. If it runs well I'll have to look for a handfull of them somewhere.
My original extractor is still good to go after several thousand rounds but it is showing some wear.
lkblair
02-24-2005, 01:20 AM
I rented a suppressed .45 stemple at the Gun Store in Vegas on Tropicana. I loved it, the cyclic rate was nice and slow, I could walk the rounds right where I needed them.
I paid $30 for the first mag, then $15 each additional mag.
I paid $60 some odd dollars.
bloomautomatic
02-24-2005, 06:10 AM
"I think you have your part terminology backwards. The EXTRACTOR pulls (extracts) the case from the chamber. The EJECTOR kicks (ejects) the case from the gun. "
no, my terminology is correct. the EJECTOR did not protrude far enough into the bolt face to hit the edge of the case. since the edge of the case barely struck the EJECTOR, the empties didn't EJECT reliably.
with a straight blowback gun like this, the EXTRACTOR is almost unnessecary. when the gun fires, it's the casing that's pushing the bolt back, not the bolt pulling the casing back. I have an old open bolt .22 semi-auto that doesn't have an extractor and it works fine. the extractor is really only needed to extract an unfired round.
mine has the wood grips and takes the modified mags. I cut the slots myself and i've never had problems with feeding. i'll try to get some pics posted. i got mine in 2002.
Vince
jburges
03-30-2005, 12:51 PM
Just for everyons info , I , Jim Burgess
was just the seller of the 76/45 guns. Stemple , made every gun out there.
Now as you guys are talking about all the trouble you are having , can you now understand what I was dealing with , selling these guns ? As to the law suit ,
That was the only way to complete our agreement.
Now , as to the suppressor being too heavy , I could have made it out of alum , but the life span , on full auto , would have been measured in months , not years.!!
Good luck , and be safe.
jim b
jburges
03-30-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by bloomautomatic
mine is a Mk II, purchased from Stemple, but the transfer had to go through Burgess. My check for $1200 was made out to and cashed by John Stemple. When it came in, Burgess tacked another $200 on to it, claiming a price increase. It was transferrerd by my dealer in PA.
Mine wouldn't eject when I got it. The ejector didn't stick out far enough to catch the edge of the casing. Told John and he brought me another ejector at the creek. Tried that one, still no luck. Ended up having to enlarge/oval the hole so it would reach further into the bolt face. Basically, the screw hole was drilled and tapped too low on the receiver. Runs like a top now. I like mine, kinda heavy compared with other subguns - like the STEn - but that helps with recoil and control. It was the best value at the time, and it was what I could afford.
Another problem was the bolt face was getting peened over and barrel wouldn't slide out. I ended up chambering the outside edge of the bolt face and it hasn't been a problem since.
I'd like to get a .22 kit for it. Talked with John about that. He told me that he doesn't have a source for hi-cap mags that will fit it, and if he were to do one, it would be a complete one-way conversion not just a drop in kit. Claims the drop-in kits tend to be too unreliable.
The story with the Burgess thing I heard was; Stemple dropped his Class 2 manufacturer license, so the tubes had to be transferred from his name. He transferrred them to Burgess to act as the holding company. What it came down to is Burgess was acting as if they belonged to him, when Stemple claims they were actually his property, but just in Burgess' name.
Vince
jburges
03-30-2005, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by jburges
Your dealer added the extra 200.00 , not
me.
jburges
03-30-2005, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by CIB
O.K. here is the version I heard! LOL! They may all be different.
The tubes were in Burgess's possession, but he did'nt actually own them, he was selling and building them for Stemple, for a commission. Apparantly, w/o Stemples knowledge he started building the 76 protos to be sold for more money. Stemple threw a fit, and took Burgess to court. Don't know what they got worked out, again that's all internet hearsay.
FWIW, I bought mine in group buy from Keith at Gulf Coast Armory, but when the gun was shipped to John Norrell it came directly from Jim Burgess. I bought it in early 2003.
I never build any of the guns , Stemple tried to cut me out , so we settled . He now does his thing and I do mine.
jim b
SubGunFan
03-30-2005, 07:30 PM
Jim:
Thank you for clearing things up. I for one, thought you built the Stemples you sold. I bought the "Demo CD" you were selling many years ago, and enjoyed it.
Who designed the Stemple changes (safety notch, ears on the sights, and the hand grip) going from the Mk I to the Mk II?
Thanks,
SubGunFan
I'd like to add my thanks too Jim. Like I said above that was all internet rumour. Glad to know your still around.
bloomautomatic
03-31-2005, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by jburges
Your dealer added the extra 200.00 , not
me.
Jim,
The guy who did the transfer (Allegheny Aresnal) is a friend of mine of many years, I've worked with him at the creek, the museum, as well as built a few products for him. When it comes to your word against his, I have to take his side on it.
I'm not salty about it. What's done is done.
Vince
jburges
04-02-2005, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by SubGunFan
Jim:
Thank you for clearing things up. I for one, thought you built the Stemples you sold. I bought the "Demo CD" you were selling many years ago, and enjoyed it.
Who designed the Stemple changes (safety notch, ears on the sights, and the hand grip) going from the Mk I to the Mk II?
Thanks,
SubGunFan
Stemple did all the work , I just sold them.
jburges
04-02-2005, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by CIB
A note on the Barrel Peening issure. I added a .035 washer to the barrel stop and it pretty much stopped the barrel peening though the extractor still hits fairly hard. There is a guy who posts on subguns, that goes by Merle in OR who provided this fix to me. I can dig up his E-mail if anyone is interested.
Hey good luck with that damned 9mm kit! Aggravatin' damned things. :)
To stop the peening , try , a 1/2" od rod stock tig welded to the follower in the mag. I will look like a dud round that is permanent to the mag. This will give you a bolt hold-open after the last shot.
Also , it would be best to put in a locater pin , same as on the m-16 barrel , to that it goes in the same way all the time . Then you can also do a small cut for the extractor , in the barrel feed ramp , so it will not hit the barrel . Just drill and tap the bottom of the barrel nut for a small screw , and install a small pin in the barrel to go into the slot on the barrel nut . All of this can be done with a moto tool and drill.
jim burgess
Thanks Jim, a simple solution I never thought of.
viperidae
05-17-2005, 02:56 PM
The ultimate safe queen as its trigger pull is so heavy you can't pull the trigger (literally). Anyone know someone who could fix this for me? A while ago Burgess told me he wasn't working on them and I should contact Stemple. Well, I can't find Mr. Stemple. No one seem to have his contact info. Help please!
John Stemple
Groveport, Ohio
740-745-5321
slimer
05-25-2005, 03:43 PM
Are these weapons still available brand new from the manufactuer? Or must one buy them though private sale?
Pete
SubGunFan
05-25-2005, 04:10 PM
slimer, welcome to the UT board...
You need to look for a "used" Stemple that is in a C3/SOT dealer's inventory or private hands. 1986 was the last year of manufacture of full-autos that could be purchased by private citizens. This is one reason the prices of full-autos is so high.
Market value of Stemples is around $3500.
SubGunFan
New guns can still be purchased directly from John Stemple.
slimer
05-28-2005, 10:32 PM
I am in Massachusetts. I just got my MG License and looking for a C&R S&W 76, Stemple 45 and a new Vector full size UZI.
The Stemple, from Mr. Stemple, is that a semi or full auto?
Pete
Mark III- M16 pistol grip, pull-out stock, sight rail, improved trigger with a milled housing $3395.00 plus s/h
Mark IV- above features, plus reduced rate of fire-400 rpm, M16 collapsable stock $3695.00 plus s/h
Please call John Stemple at 740-745-5321, 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. EST
http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=5732&query=retrieval
Check subguns.com website. He registered a lot of tubes and didin't do anything with them until now.:heavy
Everything he does is full auto.
slimer
05-31-2005, 01:10 PM
I ordered a brand new Stemple 76/45 today from Mr. Stemple. How cool to get a BRAND NEW SMG! Thanks for the info!
Pete
SubGunFan
05-31-2005, 06:55 PM
slimer:
In my last post telling you to look for a used Stemple, I forgot about the registered tubes. Of course, the tubes were registered before the cut-off in 1986.
Which version of the Stemple did you order?
SubGunFan
slimer
05-31-2005, 10:06 PM
I got the Mark IV version with the colaspable M16 stock. I also purchased the 9mm adaptor kit for the gun. I hope I do not have the issues others have had with that 9mm kit, but nothing I cannot mechanically handle.
I have been seeing ad's for Stemples in the 4.5K up to 6.5k range for earlier versions. Guess it's not well know that you can still buy them new.
The only other issue is the 6+ month turnaround time from my class 3 dealer to me. Those turnaround times are very slow up here in New England. I'm going on 4 months for a AOW shorty shotgun.
Pete
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