Swedish K vs S&W 76

[SubGunFan]

NOTE: I started a new thread with my comments from another thread.

I just got finished reading the "Swedish K vs S&W 76" article in the current edition of SAR, and............

It appears the K does have the advantage with slower ROF and adjustable sights, however.......

Its all talk and hear-say if you can't find one, and if you did, you will need a "Bill Gates wallet" to bring that puppy home. CONSTRUCTION - What ever FA you "invest" in, you want/need to take care of it. With the 76's design that allows disassembly of almost all parts and the heavy wall receiver tube, the 76 will "protect your investment".

The article gave the "advantage" nod to the K for magazines and accessories. If your K is a M45 and not a M45B or M45C, true you can use the drums and coffin mags. As with accessories, the K's only advantage is the K had them first. The most useful K accessories, the mag speedloader & stripper clips, can also be used with the 76.

And the 76 is a lighter and "feels better" than the K. Plus the 76 has semi-auto fire when needed...

I feel that if Smith&Wesson had put a little more design effort into adjustable sights and an indexed barrel, the 76 designers would have obtained all of their goals to produce a greatly improved SMG to replace the K.

Bottom line, both are excellent SMGs.

SubGunFan

[fuautos]

The reason is the number of tube k's made are low even lower on the amnesty reg. k's. The Bill Gates wallet is needed on just about all NFA weapons now a days. My NFA weapons are not investment and I take care of all my guns. I have had several out of battery discharges on my tube k. It's still looks and functions as the day I bought it. The thick tube gimmick does fly over with me. I don't think any of using our subguns as pry bars or whacking stuff with them.

The S&W76 is lighter and not by much! The part of the S&W76 feeling better. Mr. Iannamico may have never even held a k. He failed to even mention the flimsy S&W76 stock. The k has a rock solid stock. If not of the best folding stocks ever mfg. Even has abetre feel to the face. Due to it having a plastic tubeular coating
over the tubeular wire stock. No need for a selector switch on a k the rate of fire is just right. He also failed to mentioned the horrendous :puke trigger pull the S&W76 sports vs the k's trigger
pull. The k has to have the best trigger pull ever mfg. on a open bolt smg. It's light and smooth.

Fuautos :50_cal

[Brian Ski]

Originally posted by fuautos
The S&W76 is lighter and not by much! The part of the S&W76 feeling better. Mr. Iannamico may have never even held a k. He failed to even mention the flimsy S&W76 stock. The k has a rock solid stock.

It is mentioned.... Under accuracy... He said it was one of the reasons why the K was winner in the accuracy catagory...

[tomk]

Have to agree about the trigger pull. I had an MK760 that ran well with hot ammo. The trigger pull really sucked. Most times a new shooter shot the gun they always stopped and had to look to see if it was on "Safe".

I shot next to a factory SW76 at a local range and compared the two side by side with the SW76 owner. Only the variation in finish color and slightly different hole sizes in the ventilated barrel guard distinguished one from the other. The other gentleman had a friend shooting with him. When the friend went to shoot I noticed he stopped and looked at the selector on the SW76. Had to make sure that it was not on "Safe" since the trigger pull was so terrible.

If you load a mag on the MK760 with different ammo brands I could tell when you were shooting which one (different tempo). I loaded a mixed bag on the Swedish K drum and the rifle did not give away what ammo was being shot. Just very consistent and smooth.

The stock on the MK760 was not completely wiggleproof but it really did not bother me much. The rate of fire was pretty high. The rifle (MK760) was pretty accurate. It pulled a little on FA but was generally pretty smooth shooting with hot ammo. Cheap / weak ammo made it a choppy shooter and prone to jams. Not a bad gun.

The Swedish K is just noiticably better in all categories. A step above the MK760 / SW76 rifle. No selector is required to confidently pull singles. The trigger is VERY nice. The main difference is that the gun just stays right where you aim and doesn't jump around.

I was talking with a local C2 who said he and some LE friends took an M16-9mm, an MP5 and a Swedish K out to the range together. They tested to see which one put the most holes in similar standard test targets. He laughed and said that the Swedish K beat the other two with no problem.

I essentially traded a Group Uzi for the Swedish K and suppressor (and all taxes). Deals can be found (I was not looking at the time). With that said there do not seem to be many Swedish K's advertised for sale. I believe that the owners like them.

[Barry in IN]

I knew I shouldn't have let my subscription run out. Oh well.

I like my 76 fine, but if I were after another SMG, a K would be at the top of the list.

When I bought my 76, the dealer had a Swedish K among "his" stuff. As I looked at his K and "my" 76, I decided that a blend of the two guns would be nice.
If it was pre-86 right now, I might have to consider having such a beast created.

I have to wonder why S&W made some of the changes they did. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is my take on the 76 design story-

The Navy and Army had been using Swedish Ks to a degree. The Swedes cut us off. The military still wanted some. From what I gather, all the military (Navy and Army) wanted was for a U.S. company to start punching out some K-copies. And do it right now.

S&W volunteered. But rather than building a bunch of K-copies ASAP, S&W spent over a year redesigning it.
In the meantime, potential buyers disappeared. The military found other designs, adapted available weapons to suit, or just plain dropped the idea.

As a result, it appears that S&W was lucky to sell as many as they did to the military. I've heard tales of S&W law enforcment sales reps "throwing in" a 76 with every 20 revolvers purchased as late as 1978.

Plus, it seems those changes helped in some places and hurt in others. Some of the changes like adding semi-auto capability, I could understand trying, but later, as an option. Whether it was ever needed is another matter. Other changes seemed obviously a mistake, like the stock.

I have a couple of theories about why S&W did things the way they did. Let me run them by you guys and see what you think.....

The three big changes seem to be the sights, the stock, and adding semi-auto capability.

Why take the time to redesign-
When the K request was made, the war was in full swing. S&W saw a fair amount of military sales coming. Although the initial order would be low, it looked like we would be active in Vietnam for a while. Therefore, they figured they had time for the redesign.

Semi-auto capability-
Then there is S&W's bread and butter- law enforcement sales.
S&W wanted to cash in on both fronts. Adding semi-auto capability would help law enforcement sales.

Sights-
The change in the sight locations was probably made to faciliitate suppressor use. Putting them both on the receiver, rather than split between the rcvr and barrel shroud would simplify suppressor manufacture/installation. I've wondered if that was a military request. It seems that most, if not all, pictures I've seen of 76s in use in Vietnam had suppressors mounted.

Stock-
The stock I can't explain. Maybe it was a buck or two cheaper.

OK, so that's one explanation for it. Here's another.
Either S&W lost interest in the project, or never cared.
They assigned some people to it just to play with the idea, who tinkered for a while, then just finshed it up as best they could, and called it done.

[Brian Ski]

To bad they didn't index the barrel.... I think that was one of there biggest mistakes... Probably saved a few bucks but it wasn't worth it...

[SubGunFan]

Barry & Brian:

For a FA owner/shooter, a subscription to SAR is definitly worth the $35 a year.... even if we can't buy or afford some of the goodies featured in SAR.

As for the redesign... I think S&W wanted a SMG that was different and would always be known as a Smith&Wesson firearm.

Sights - I never thought about moving the front sight to the receiver in order to utilize suppressors, but that makes good sense. I just wished S&W would have made the sights more easily adjustable. But stamped sheetmetal is a lot cheaper than machined pieces with threads.

Barrel - Yes, indexing would have been a BIG PLUS, but only with better sights.

Stock - I really don't have a "problem" with the stock. True it is not "rock solid", but at least mine still locks up pretty tight.

Semi-auto - I feel S&W added semi with LE sales in mind. Semi allows for a more controlled fire which helps reduce the risk of the wrong people being hit. An important concideration with LEOs.

Many years ago I heard the 76 was made between 1967 and 1971. But now reading the current info, it was between 1969 and 1976. 6,000 76s in 6 to 7 years tells me that S&W did not put that much effort into production.

Trigger pull - I think the 76s that have "heavy" trigger pulls need a little work on the bolt and sear. My 76's trigger pull is not that bad... I have read that mainly MK 760s can have/develope rough areas on the bolt and sear. A little polishing work can help that problem.

For the record... I have never fired a K. But I have fired a few MP5s. To me, the overall feel of FA fire, the 76 felt better. I was surprized at how much the MP5 kicked. With the K's extra weight and slower ROF, I can just imagine it would be a sweet shooting SMG. One day, I will know for myself....

SubGunFan

[Barry in IN]

I really think '67 to '71 for years of production is pretty accurate. As I recall, that's what it said on the factory letter I got for mine.

I have heard that although they had not made any in years, they had new, unsold 76s available for a looong time after that. I've heard they had new ones as late as 1980, but of course have no way of confirming that.

[Brian Ski]

Originally posted by SubGunFan
Trigger pull - I think the 76s that have "heavy" trigger pulls need a little work on the bolt and sear. My 76's trigger pull is not that bad... I have read that mainly MK 760s can have/develope rough areas on the bolt and sear. A little polishing work can help that problem.
SubGunFan

Sounds like another Chevy VS Ford competition.... Everyone knows Ford is better.....

That article said the 76 has a 15lb trigger pull.... Seems like dragging a bag of sand!!!! When people are looking to see if the safety is on!!!!!

[Barry in IN]

Sure seems like 76s vary from gun to gun.

A couple of examples-
Some people complain about the trigger pull, but I think mine's pretty good.
I think the stock is crap, but others report no trouble.

There's more. It must depend on what day it was made, when in the production, who did it, etc.

Anyone who is shopping for one- shop around.

[Hawksnest]

I love my Smith 76! Great trigger pull, stock locks up tight, runs like a clock (720 rpm), cheap to shoot, C&R, takes modified (and cheap) Soumi mags, marked "NYSDCS"(New York State, Department of Correctional Services).