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View Full Version : forget the Galil forum...there may be a TAVOR in your future!



dustindu4
05-05-2003, 12:58 AM
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/Tavor-7.jpg


The IMI Tavor Assault Rifle (TAR) also has a civilian version designed for the U.S. market. Modeled after the new Tavor 2, the civilian Tavor is much different from the original Tavor 1 design.

IMI is currently checking the concept with the American company Barrett Firearms, but nothing is certain yet. If and when the prototype will be made commercially, it will be most likely made eniterly in the U.S. from all U.S. parts and will host standard M16 magazines. The weapon will also be very expensive with price estimates ranging from 1500$ to 2000$.


http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/civi.jpg
Mrs. Angela Barrett from Barrett Firearms demonstrating the civilian Tavor fitted with a Trijicon ACOG 3.5x35 day optic at the Barrett booth, SHOT show, Las Vegas, February 2002.


This and more is all found at http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/civi.htm

There's lots of discussion on this going on right now at www.subguns.com

dustindu4
05-05-2003, 01:03 AM
rumor has it that the expiration of the AWB depends on this being made or not

tommygun2000
05-05-2003, 04:37 AM
Mrs Barrett, That picture is very flattering.

I'd love to own a bullpup design gun but don't think I'd use it enough, being a lefty.

I do shoot pistol right handed almost half the time, but haven't practiced with the rifle as much.

cookie
05-05-2003, 08:30 AM
:tongue

mac
05-05-2003, 12:10 PM
I dont want to be a stickler for DETAILS..... But the ANTIS love this kinda stuff..... I mean WE PROs like it to when we see an ANTI such as DerFeinstein do the same thing....

stymie
05-05-2003, 01:21 PM
tommygun2000...

No Problemo on being a "lefty"... just buy a STEYR AUG bullpup. You can swap out the bolts & ejection port covers for lefty ejection. I've had two of them & never had a malfunction of any kind... great weapons!

RoverDave
05-05-2003, 01:25 PM
I don't really care much for bullpup designs but maybe Mrs. Angela Barrett could coinvince me otherwise

chrisp929
05-05-2003, 06:46 PM
DROOL ............ DROOL ......... DROOL ......... DROOL ..........

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2466274.jpg

MuzzleFlash
08-14-2003, 01:57 AM
I'd be more impressed if Ronnie would teach her to keep her finger off the trigger and maybe offer it in .50 BMG:D :D

Corbic
07-22-2004, 02:56 PM
Its not a very handsome weapon. I like the FAMAS much more.

AKman
07-24-2004, 10:56 PM
Sorry we well never have them hear in US there jest 2 dame evil looking :( (but I give your first born to have one:D ) 2 bad 2 it look so bad ass and as we all now Israel makes great reliable weapons (well its all the dame Russian immigrants that were making all the weapons for the old USSR are now making weapons for Israel so its not that big of surprise relly)

skippy
01-02-2012, 07:34 PM
Hello all. This is my first post here and, yes, I realize that this thread is 7-1/2 years old. So, Am I safe in assuming that a semi-auto civilian Tavor is NOT in my future?

I have been researching my next rifle for some time now. I want lightweight and "sandstorm reliability". Can't decide if I should get an IMI Galil, HK MR556A1 or an FN SCAR 16S. The Golani clones seem to be a "crap shoot" and I have had enough experience with handgun lemons. I have also thought about a CNC Warrior receiver, rounding up all the other parts and finding a good gunsmith. I am leaning towards the SCAR, lightweight ans some good reports from Afghanistan. If it works in Afghanistan, it will work in New Mexico! Any suggestions?

Skippy

emerz
01-02-2012, 07:57 PM
Hello all. This is my first post here and, yes, I realize that this thread is 7-1/2 years old. So, Am I safe in assuming that a semi-auto civilian Tavor is NOT in my future?


Unfortunately NOT.

Steamroller
01-02-2012, 09:00 PM
I guess it will depend on the one factor that guides most purchases in general, your budget. Secondly, is it what you want. I am sure if I had the cash to drop on any of the firearms you mentioned, I would probably build a nice micro with a SBR stamp to go along with it. Third, what are you going to be using it for? Galils are gaining collector value, if you want a nice example for your collection, I would pick up an IMI. I couldn't imagine buying an IMI Galil and subjecting it to the punishment I put my Golani through, though I'm sure some do. Not saying an IMI won't take it, they are rock solid, just more for someone who is going to preserve it. My Golani isn't quite a collectible, lol.
If you want a Galil to get down and dirty with, and to train with I would recommend picking up a CNCwarrior receiver. Pick up one of the SAR kits from Apex, get an actual SAR gas block and a Micro stock from Blackthorne, pick out one of the rail systems available and send it to Hillbilly firearms to have it built. Get your SBR stamp, drop a TA01 or the like on it, outfit it for your specific needs or requirements. Get some steel, Orlite and poly mags to see what you like. Dig out about a thousand rounds of 5.56 and put it through it's paces. The Galil will definitely play in the sand. Enjoy having a classic military rifle at the heart of your rig.
I got lucky with my Golani, and I have grown very fond of it. Compared with an MR556 or SCAR it is probably going to be on the heavy side. Some don't like the Galil, some love it! If you can find a decent running Golani it is a good rifle to use to familiarize yourself with the platform. Plus you won't be in to it for a large chunk if it's not for you. I traded an old beat up Beretta for mine and I haven't looked back. I like the weight of it for what I use it for. I pack my plastic AR if I'm going to be hiking or lugging extra weight.
Good luck with your hunt, pick up a Golani at your local gun shop and see if it feels good. If so, build one just the way you want it. Go out and play with the guys with the HKs and the FNs. Don't mind the grins and the sneers, you'll know what you've got.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the Tavor.
Welcome to the forum! Kick off your shoes and stay a while!

lcastillo
01-02-2012, 11:32 PM
+1 on Steamrollers advice. Even tho I would love to own a MR556. The Galil is definetly a Sand Lubber!

skippy
01-03-2012, 10:35 AM
I guess it will depend on the one factor that guides most purchases in general, your budget. Secondly, is it what you want. I am sure if I had the cash to drop on any of the firearms you mentioned, I would probably build a nice micro with a SBR stamp to go along with it. Third, what are you going to be using it for? Galils are gaining collector value, if you want a nice example for your collection, I would pick up an IMI. I couldn't imagine buying an IMI Galil and subjecting it to the punishment I put my Golani through, though I'm sure some do. Not saying an IMI won't take it, they are rock solid, just more for someone who is going to preserve it. My Golani isn't quite a collectible, lol.
If you want a Galil to get down and dirty with, and to train with I would recommend picking up a CNCwarrior receiver. Pick up one of the SAR kits from Apex, get an actual SAR gas block and a Micro stock from Blackthorne, pick out one of the rail systems available and send it to Hillbilly firearms to have it built. Get your SBR stamp, drop a TA01 or the like on it, outfit it for your specific needs or requirements. Get some steel, Orlite and poly mags to see what you like. Dig out about a thousand rounds of 5.56 and put it through it's paces. The Galil will definitely play in the sand. Enjoy having a classic military rifle at the heart of your rig.
I got lucky with my Golani, and I have grown very fond of it. Compared with an MR556 or SCAR it is probably going to be on the heavy side. Some don't like the Galil, some love it! If you can find a decent running Golani it is a good rifle to use to familiarize yourself with the platform. Plus you won't be in to it for a large chunk if it's not for you. I traded an old beat up Beretta for mine and I haven't looked back. I like the weight of it for what I use it for. I pack my plastic AR if I'm going to be hiking or lugging extra weight.
Good luck with your hunt, pick up a Golani at your local gun shop and see if it feels good. If so, build one just the way you want it. Go out and play with the guys with the HKs and the FNs. Don't mind the grins and the sneers, you'll know what you've got.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the Tavor.
Welcome to the forum! Kick off your shoes and stay a while!

Yes, I realize that if I get a NIB IMI Galil I will be paying a big "collectors premium" some of which I will destroy in short order. Not really opposed to the "build" option except that I have never done that before. I think I will pass on the SBR route; the politicians will pick those up the same day they pick up all the full auto's. As for use, I am a retired engineer and I spend a lot of time in some remote areas of NM so I want something light and reliable, just in case. I am partial to a plastic stock especially if it is not black, the sun can be brutal in the summer. Anything like this for the Galil?

Another concern is "user servicability". I like to have a spare parts kit for my everyday firearms. I am not a gunsmith but I can fix a 1911. How does the Galil compare to a SCAR 16 or a HK556?

Thanks for the general pointers for the build.

Skippy

Steamroller
01-03-2012, 12:39 PM
Hey Skippy, as far as a build goes all you would need to do is decide on the set up you want and collect the parts. Sounds like you would want an ARM or AR style build. That would give you legal barrel length, mine is 18" in an AR configuration which is perfect for me. It is very accurate but it isn't too long to make it hard in close quarters. You could go to 16" as well without much trouble. As for building one, you would just find the parts you want and talk to Jeff (tenngalil) about building it for you. He is the go-to guy for Galil builds. His work is impeccable and he can advise you on what may best suit you as well.

When it comes to serviceability the Galil is similar in some respects to the AK. But in some instances it is much different, and better in my opinion. Parts kits are available here and there. I agree with you on the point that you keep a parts kit for your everyday use guns. That is what turned me off when I was looking at getting a MR556 upper. The parts prices are through the roof. By the time I got a set of spares for the gas system I could just about buy another MR556 upper. Not knocking the HK, it makes me weak in the knees every time I shoot one. But US parts suppliers just gouge so badly on part prices.

The Galil comes apart like the AK for simple field stripping, remove top cover, remove recoil spring, remove bolt carrier assy gas tube and so on. The gas tube is much better in design due to the Galils incorporation of the trunnion into the receiver. You can also swap out an AK47 bolt carrier if you don't like the Galil charging handle. As much as I adore the platform it does have one shortcoming as far as I can see, that is optics. Original mounts are awkward and usually hard to find. Cheaper mounts are usually aluminum and won't hold zero. PRI has a nice mount, but it sits pretty high so the dust cover can come off easily and so the irons can still be used. Other than that you have the railed handguard systems. Some are overpriced and some are not quality. They are mostly good for red dots or optics with a more forgiving eye relief. I'm working on getting some railed gas tubes made. Then you could put an extender on it and extend it back to give a little better cheek weld.

I don't believe there were ever any plastic stocks made for the Galil. There is a website called israeli-weapons.com that make a folding AR15 buffer tube for the Galil. Quality of that product is unknown though, but it is available. That would give you the option of most any collapsible AR15 stock.

Hope this helps, I'm really bad about rambling so excuse the windy posts. I am glad to help in any way I can. If you are thinking about a build then contact tenngalil on this forum. He can help you out with what ever you need.

BBQCYCLEWERKES
01-04-2012, 09:21 AM
Yep.... Tenngalil is the man.

Raptor22
01-04-2012, 05:43 PM
To be able to buy a Tavor, you would have to move to Canada.

TinmanIA
01-21-2012, 05:47 PM
Its not a very handsome weapon. I like the FAMAS much more.

I like the Tavor, but yes I would rather have the Famas. Still no Idea on what the MSRP would be for the Tavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS3vHnEQXBg

From the 2012 Shot show.

GaryV
01-22-2012, 04:26 PM
At the same time, there is currently a federal court case that may end up overturning the "sporting purposes" restriction in the GCA anyway, so there may soon not even need to be US produced guns in order to get one.

ak74auto
01-22-2012, 05:31 PM
At the same time, there is currently a federal court case that may end up overturning the "sporting purposes" restriction in the GCA anyway, so there may soon not even need to be US produced guns in order to get one.

Do you have anymore information on this lawsuit?

GaryV
01-22-2012, 10:14 PM
Do you have anymore information on this lawsuit?

Here is the motion for summary judgement filed by Alan Gura and SAF:

http://ia700401.us.archive.org/30/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946.23.1.pdf

Basically the suit is being brought by an American who lives in Canada, and so has no US state of residence. Because of this, he is prohibited from purchasing a handgun for self defense in the US, because the GCA restricts sales of handguns only to residents of the state where the seller is licensed/resides. He also is restricted by the "sporting purposes" requirement as to any gun he could bring into to the US (for example, even if he owned a Tavor in Canada legally, he could not bring it into the US when he visits). Since Heller established a fundamental right to have a handgun for protection in the home, he is entitled to have a handgun suitable for defense in his domicile while visiting the US. And because of the residency and sporting purposes requirements, he is currently prohibited from doing so.

lcastillo
01-23-2012, 12:24 AM
Here is the motion for summary judgement filed by Alan Gura and SAF:

http://ia700401.us.archive.org/30/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946.23.1.pdf

Basically the suit is being brought by an American who lives in Canada, and so has no US state of residence. Because of this, he is prohibited from purchasing a handgun for self defense in the US, because the GCA restricts sales of handguns only to residents of the state where the seller is licensed/resides. He also is restricted by the "sporting purposes" requirement as to any gun he could bring into to the US (for example, even if he owned a Tavor in Canada legally, he could not bring it into the US when he visits). Since Heller established a fundamental right to have a handgun for protection in the home, he is entitled to have a handgun suitable for defense in his domicile while visiting the US. And because of the residency and sporting purposes requirements, he is currently prohibited from doing so.GaryV, I am all for any lift on sporting purpose requirements, but I have some questions. First is the plantiff wanting to import a Tavor for personal protection while in the USA? Did this guy renounce his US citizenship for Canadian citizenship? Is the NRA supporting this lawsuit? Thanks for bringing attention to this lawsuit. Lou

Mr Folgers
01-23-2012, 01:09 AM
GaryV, I am all for any lift on sporting purpose requirements, but I have some questions. First is the plantiff wanting to import a Tavor for personal protection while in the USA?

He used it as an example. Basically the Second and Fifth amendments are contradicting each other because of the firearm restrictions in the US. The Second amendment gives the right to keep and bear arms while the Fifth secures all US citizen rights even on foreign soil. The Sporting purposes laws require him to be a US resident, so he can't buy a handgun and bring it to Canada for protection or bring a rifle legal in Canada that is not legal in the US back with him if he chooses to.


Did this guy renounce his US citizenship for Canadian citizenship?

He doesn't have to. You can have dual citizenship or however many you are eligible for (I myself am eligible for Polish citizenship through my family). I don't think you are ever required to denounce your citizenship for another for any country.


Is the NRA supporting this lawsuit?
Probably not because they themselves are not directly affected by these laws on foreign soil. The NRA doesn't really work to broaden citizen rights but protect the ones withstanding.

Also recognize that this is also a bad thing. A lot of manufacturing businesses rely on 922(r) and they would undoubtedly go under if this passed. For anyone who treats Pre-Ban rifles such as a Galil as a bear bond would see a drastic plummet in value because they would be again allowed for importation. Undoubtedly companies such as Heckler and Koch or IMI would modify existing inventories again for the civilian market.

lcastillo
01-23-2012, 01:39 AM
Thanks Mr Folgers. I not a legal smart guy. That makes sense.

Mr Folgers
01-23-2012, 01:51 AM
Thanks Mr Folgers. I not a legal smart guy. That makes sense.

My old man was a lawyer. It's in the blood i guess :bang

GaryV
01-23-2012, 02:53 PM
GaryV, I am all for any lift on sporting purpose requirements, but I have some questions. First is the plantiff wanting to import a Tavor for personal protection while in the USA? Did this guy renounce his US citizenship for Canadian citizenship? Is the NRA supporting this lawsuit? Thanks for bringing attention to this lawsuit. Lou

Basically what Mr. Folgers said. The Tavor was just an example. The point is that Heller established protection as the core to the right in the 2A, not sports, so limiting him from bringing in only those weapons deemed suitable for sporting purposes means that he is prohibited from bringing in weapons that might be designed best for the core of the right, and he cannot buy a handgun here and store it in the US for use here, because he is not a resident of any state. So, between the resident and sporting purposes requirements, there is no way for him to possess the type of gun he wants in the US for self protection, even though the 2A guarantees him that right.

No, he did not renounce his US citizenship. He is simply an American who lives abroad, which is extremely common. Just as non-citizens can live in the US with a green card, US citizens can live in other countries without becoming citizens as well.

No, the NRA is not involved in the suit. It is being handled by SAF, which has a much better track record with court cases. They are the ones who won both Heller and McDonald (the NRA only jumped onto McDonald at the last minute as an amicus, and actually opposed Heller). The NRA is primarily a lobbying organization; the SAF is the premier 2A litigation organization.

As for the people who make a living off 922(r) compliance, yeah, they'll take a hit. But would we rather have the GCA in place, with the ATF essentially able to continually narrow their definition of "sporting purposes" until nothing is importable, or have the GCA overturned/repealed and be able to get whichever guns we want without depending on ever-dwindling parts kits, crappy CAI builds, out-of-spec US made parts, etc.? I love my Tenngalil build, but there are a lot of guns I either can't get at all, or can't afford, that I'd be able to get if sporting purposes gets overturned.

TinmanIA
01-24-2012, 11:00 AM
He used it as an example. Basically the Second and Fifth amendments are contradicting each other because of the firearm restrictions in the US. The Second amendment gives the right to keep and bear arms while the Fifth secures all US citizen rights even on foreign soil. The Sporting purposes laws require him to be a US resident, so he can't buy a handgun and bring it to Canada for protection or bring a rifle legal in Canada that is not legal in the US back with him if he chooses to.

I didn't see anything on that in the lawsuit. I don't see much of anything against the Import ban, it looked to be mostly concerning the residency requirements that were being challenged.

GaryV
01-24-2012, 03:48 PM
I didn't see anything on that in the lawsuit. I don't see much of anything against the Import ban, it looked to be mostly concerning the residency requirements that were being challenged.

There's really nothing in the suit specifically about the import ban, but there is a great deal about the "sporting purposes" standard. In the government's MSJ, they put forward the idea that the plaintiff could buy a gun that is suitable for both defense and sporting purposes in Canada, and bring it with him, but this idea is then torn down in the plaintiff's response:

http://ia600401.us.archive.org/30/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946/gov.uscourts.dcd.135946.28.0.pdf

Again, they specifically mention the import ban, but attack the "sporting purposes" limitation.

Mr Folgers
01-24-2012, 06:37 PM
GaryV pretty much got it. Since Post-ban imports into the United States "Qualify" as having a Sporting Purpose they are allowed in. They don't want Military rifles imported because they find them as having more of a purpose in military applications than sporting purposes... IE A Galil Vs. A Remington 700. In the traditional sense a Sporting rifle was a simple Shotgun or Bolt-action rifle.

I wouldn't worry about this case. Although they have found a significant loophole that goes against the fifth-amendment (This is considered a very serious problem in all cases) they would have to involve Canada, and they are much like California in the respect of firearms ownership. The right for Americans to have firearms in other countries probably isn't something the rest of the world would welcome with open arms....

GaryV
01-24-2012, 08:45 PM
GaryV pretty much got it. Since Post-ban imports into the United States "Qualify" as having a Sporting Purpose they are allowed in. They don't want Military rifles imported because they find them as having more of a purpose in military applications than sporting purposes... IE A Galil Vs. A Remington 700. In the traditional sense a Sporting rifle was a simple Shotgun or Bolt-action rifle.

I wouldn't worry about this case. Although they have found a significant loophole that goes against the fifth-amendment (This is considered a very serious problem in all cases) they would have to involve Canada, and they are much like California in the respect of firearms ownership. The right for Americans to have firearms in other countries probably isn't something the rest of the world would welcome with open arms....

The case isn't about the right of Americans to have weapons in other countries. He wants to have a gun that he stores here in the US that he can use for self-defense while visiting the US. He can't purchase the gun he wants here because he is not the resident of a state, and he cannot bring in the gun he wants because it doesn't meet the ATF's definition of sporting purposes. He also may not borrow or rent a gun for self protection either, because lending or renting a gun to a non-resident is limited to doing so only for sporting purposes. According to Heller, he has a fundamental constitutional right to keep a gun for self defense while in the US, and the GCA doesn't allow him to acquire a gun designed and intended to be used for that purpose.

lcastillo
01-24-2012, 08:51 PM
Ok I have to ask at the risk of looking foolish. What caused the importation ban anyway? It's a no brainer that the National Firearms Act of 1934 was to combat the gangsters before/after prohibition was repealed. The gun control act of 1968 was to register guns after Kennedy was assasinated in 1964. All the guns involved in the basis for these laws seem to have been american made guns.

I also ask this, Why does the NFA or Gun Control Act of 1968 not have a "sunset provision" as the Assault Ban of 1994? It seems that the Assault Weapons ban of 1994 was to achieve the desired effect to curb gangs from using assault guns with high capacity magazines. It seems that this was achieved and that is why the ban was not re-authorized after it expired. Even the Patriot Act has a sunset provision and has expired and been re-authorized twice. Heck, the NFA alone could be challeged for being over 70 years old. It seems that we are being punished by something that happened in the past. Today we risk attacks from terrorist on US soil, why should we not be able to protect ourselves with full auto weapons? Do we think that in the near future terrorist will not be able to smuggle full auto weapons thru Mexico's/US porous border? I want to be able to defend myself apples to apples.

GaryV
01-24-2012, 09:47 PM
Ok I have to ask at the risk of looking foolish. What caused the importation ban anyway? It's a no brainer that the National Firearms Act of 1934 was to combat the gangsters before/after prohibition was repealed. The gun control act of 1968 was to register guns after Kennedy was assasinated in 1964. All the guns involved in the basis for these laws seem to have been american made guns.

I also ask this, Why does the NFA or Gun Control Act of 1968 not have a "sunset provision" as the Assault Ban of 1994? It seems that the Assault Weapons ban of 1994 was to achieve the desired effect to curb gangs from using assault guns with high capacity magazines. It seems that this was achieved and that is why the ban was not re-authorized after it expired. Even the Patriot Act has a sunset provision and has expired and been re-authorized twice. Heck, the NFA alone could be challeged for being over 70 years old. It seems that we are being punished by something that happened in the past. Today we risk attacks from terrorist on US soil, why should we not be able to protect ourselves with full auto weapons? Do we think that in the near future terrorist will not be able to smuggle full auto weapons thru Mexico's/US porous border? I want to be able to defend myself apples to apples.

Kennedy was assassinated with an Italian Carcano - an imported surplus military bolt-action rifle, that LHO bought by mail order. The AWB wasn't about gangs, since gangs never used those guns in any significant numbers (and generally, criminals never have). It was simply a way to reduce the number of types of guns we can legally own. Same is true with the GCA (which actually had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, either one), and the NFA (gangsters didn't actually use Tommy guns that much - it was Hollywood fiction back then too - like always, they mostly used handguns because they were so much easier to conceal). All these laws just used one or two incidents as excuses to get them passed, but were often written up before those incidents and the incidents just gave them the support they needed. For example, the GCA was always an integral part of Johnson's Great Society package. It had already been sitting in Congress for months when Bobby Kennedy and MLK were assassinated. Those incidents got it passed, but that wasn't what was in mind when it was written.

31dirty
01-24-2012, 10:08 PM
Been reading alot about the Tavor shown at 2012 shot show, apparently IWI is opening a factory in the US to produce these rifles here. Perhaps we will see the Galil ACE series produced here too?

A man can dream.

Mr Folgers
01-25-2012, 01:48 AM
Been reading alot about the Tavor shown at 2012 shot show, apparently IWI is opening a factory in the US to produce these rifles here. Perhaps we will see the Galil ACE series produced here too?

A man can dream.

I hope they decide to make originals. I'm not much for the new age rifles and all these accessories people stick on'em.

Ugh!
01-25-2012, 08:09 AM
Been reading alot about the Tavor shown at 2012 shot show, apparently IWI is opening a factory in the US to produce these rifles here. Perhaps we will see the Galil ACE series produced here too?

A man can dream.

God I hope so! New IWI produced galil parts would be sweet.