My barrel is frozen?

[spur0701]

Got home form the range this afternoon and breaking down the Vector to clean it and the barrel won't come out.....anyone had this before?. I only put 4 40 rnd mags through it and didn't have any problems at the range, I was shooting some Hotshot and some Israeli surplus (from Southern Ammmo I think).....the Israeli was a lot hotter and cycled a lot faster than the hotshot....could it have bulged the barrel? Looking down from the muzzle I can see a ring about half way down but that could just bee how far down the light is penetration from the breech end.

[UZI SBR AWC]

Sound like you stuck a bullet maybe, and manged to drive it out with following round, buldging the barrel??

[carcass]

I don't know how common it is to ring an UZI barrel--I have a friend who was shooting at a rental range...the guy next to him had a problem with flame shooting out the side of the UZI he was shooting--turned out he had a squib and put 5 or 6 rounds down after it, all jamming behind the first one. The range guy swapped the barrel out, got him some new ammo, and he kept going.

I should point out here that it was the guy next to my friend who was shooting the UZI, not my friend. It's not clear above.

[Oswald2001]

This is not the first account of a bulged barrel due to squib round that I have read about with the surplus Israeli ammo.

[Fr8 Dawg]

I don't know how common it is to ring an UZI barrel--I have a friend who was shooting at a rental range...the guy next to him had a problem with flame shooting out the side of the UZI he was shooting--turned out he had a squib and put 5 or 6 rounds down after it, all jamming behind the first one. The range guy swapped the barrel out, got him some new ammo, and he kept going.

I should point out here that it was the guy next to my friend who was shooting the UZI, not my friend. It's not clear above.

that is one of the advantanges of a sub gun like the uzi. Get one stuck in the barrel and it takes a minute to replace it.

The other day, some "inexperienced" guys were talking about sustained rate of fire of some assault weapons and machine guns. So I posted some information for them and they made a comment, "What's so great about 75 rounds per minute if the gun is capable of 800 to 1,200 rounds a minute?"

That's when I said, "an M4 with a melted barrel is not so good against an Uzi with an un-melted barrel...so tell me about how antiquated the sub gun is again?" Most of these guys think that sub guns are only usefull for "room clearing".

[FOZ]

"What's so great about 75 rounds per minute if the gun is capable of 800 to 1,200 rounds a minute?"

you mean 750 ?

[Fr8 Dawg]

"What's so great about 75 rounds per minute if the gun is capable of 800 to 1,200 rounds a minute?"

Huh, you mean 750 ?DUH, no, I mean 40 to 90 rounds a minute on average...if that doesn't agree with your perceptions of what assault rifles and machine guns are capable of, you'll have to argue with the poster of this thread and his or her references. Like I said, what's better in an alley, an M16, Galil, AK or FNC with a barrel that's headed south or an UZI that's only good enough for "room clearing"?

Sources:
www.smallarmsresearch.org/glossary.html
http://www.lewis.army.mil/864thEngineers/Study/brm1.htm
www.military.com

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=rate%20of%20fire

thing) by KosherTacoHouse (5.5 mon) (print) ? Mon Apr 26 2004 at 19:51:21

The practical rate of fire of an automatic weapon is also affected by the durability of the weapon system's barrel. The largest problem with firing a weapon at the cyclic rate is the likelihood of catastrophic failure of the barrel (i.e. the barrel melts due to the heat generated by the rounds passing through it). Even with regular magazine changes most every automatic weapon will overheat its barrel within minutes if fired continuously at the cyclic rate. For this reason nearly every automatic weapon employed by the U.S. military has interchangeable barrels that can be swapped out within seconds so long as the weapon has fixed headspace and timing.

The U.S. military breaks down the rate of fire for its automatic weapons into three categories: sustained, rapid, and cyclic.

1) The "sustained" rate of fire is the ideal rate for the weapon system. At the sustained rate of fire, with barrel exchanges at the recommended intervals, the weapon should last all day. This is always the lowest rate of fire for any weapon.

2) The "rapid" rate of fire typically applies only to medium to heavy weapon systems. This rate is used when the weapon needs to be fired at or around its limitations due to heavy offensive pressure on the team, squad, platoon, etc. Recommended barrel exchanges become more frequent and chances of the weapon system experiencing stoppages, malfunctions, or even catastrophic failure become greater.

3) The "cyclic" rate of fire should be theoretical only. This is absolutely the maximum rate of fire at which the weapon will ever operate. Determined partly by the design and machinery of the weapon, it is also based on time taken for magazine and barrel exchanges performed by someone who is an expert with the weapon. Firing any weapon at the cyclic rate will all but guarantee catastrophic failure of the barrel within minutes. Catastrophic failure of the barrel is what is commonly known as a "Very Bad Thing" since it means there is a very good chance the weapon will explode in your face. Imagine having your face less than a foot away from a grenade as it detonates. As stated previously, theoretically no weapon should ever be fired cyclic, but that doesn't mean it never happens. When the chances of being overrun start to beat out the chances of melting the barrel, rules and guidelines start to lose their meaning. This is why the term "going cyclic" is synonymous with "FPF" (Final Protective Fire), or "the fit has hit the shan".


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some examples of rates of fire for standard U.S. military automatic weapons (listed in "rpm" for "rounds per minute"):

M-16A2 Service Rifle (5.56 MM)

Cyclic: 800 rpm
Sustained: 85 rpm

M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon (5.56 MM)

Cyclic: 725 rpm
Sustained: 85 rpm

M-240G (7.62 MM)

Cyclic: 650-950 rpm
Rapid: 200 rpm
Sustained: 100 rpm

MK-19 (40 MM)

Cyclic: 325-375 rpm
Rapid: 60 rpm
Sustained: 40 rpm

M2 (.50 cal)

Sustained: Less than 40 rpm
Rapid: > 40 rpm
Cyclic: 450-550 rpm

Sources:
www.smallarmsresearch.org/glossary.html
http://www.lewis.army.mil/864thEngineers/Study/brm1.htm
www.military.com

[spur0701]

Well, this has got to be a squib that bulged the barrel enough so that it can't be removed from the front trunnion....the gun fired fine the entire time at the range, in fact I didn't disassemble and clean from the last time I took it which was back in Sep right before deer season started so it may have happened then.

I hit it a few times before dinner last night with a rubber mallet and it started to come out but it was an awkward angle, I need a hardwood punch......any danger to the front trunnion by doing this?

I've got two replacement part kits so have extra barrels....any use for the old barrel? I wouldn't be able to put it back in unless I turned it, how much would accuracy suffer?

[Sayeret Shaldag]

These loads from Southern Ammo sound like some great stuff. Wasn't there another account just recently over two bulged barrels due to this Southern Ammo crap? These stories amaze me in the amount of abuse the UZI can take without killing or injuring the operator. Carcass does "ring" mean to get a round stuck in the barrel? I have not heard this term before thanks.

[Vegas SMG]

This is EXACTLY why I wouldn't bring an IMI conversion up to SMG specs in this one area. If you have a lodged bullet in the area of the trunion and it presents a real problem like this, you can always go back and bore out the trunion to SMG specs.

[7.62bthp]

DUH, no, I mean 40 to 90 rounds a minute on average...if that doesn't agree with your perceptions of what assault rifles and machine guns are capable of, you'll have to argue with the poster of this thread and his or her references. Like I said, what's better in an alley, an M16, Galil, AK or FNC with a barrel that's headed south or an UZI that's only good enough for "room clearing"?


People don't realize this! It's one of the reasond for 3 shot rifles...

We were always told 4 magazines in succession, was the limit.
This thread does indeed account for the robust design built into an UZI. A round stuck in the barrel, pushed out by the following round, and it slightly bulged the barrel and the operator was never aware of it, let alone hurt. Ya gotta love it! More than likely will end up being a less than $100 home fix.(if he didn't already have the spares laying around) As much as I love 'em, try that with your favorite Mp5!

Simplicity of design, ease of repair, and safety. BIG PLUSES!

[spur0701]

I called Vector and talked to their service dept......the guy said just beat the old barrel out and put in a new one in, he said there's no way I could hurt that front trunnion.......he did say he would suggest throwing the old barrel away given how cheap replacements were......

[Fr8 Dawg]

People don't realize this! It's one of the reasond for 3 shot rifles...

We were always told 4 magazines in succession, was the limit.
This thread does indeed account for the robust design built into an UZI. A round stuck in the barrel, pushed out by the following round, and it slightly bulged the barrel and the operator was never aware of it, let alone hurt. Ya gotta love it! More than likely will end up being a less than $100 home fix.(if he didn't already have the spares laying around) As much as I love 'em, try that with your favorite Mp5!

Simplicity of design, ease of repair, and safety. BIG PLUSES!

Yea, barrel changes are easy in an Uzi as compared to the HK. But still, an HK owner with reasonble skills and a press can do thier own smitty work on an HK.

The point I was trying to make is that I never heard of anything regarding "sustained" rate of fire with a sub gun. Which makes them invaluable for prolonged use in tight quarters...such as an urban environment.

[M5NSX]

As much as I love 'em, try that with your favorite Mp5!



All my rounds actually leave the barrel of my MP5!! With the MP5 firing with a locked closed bolt, a jammed round would cause the bolt to jam as the next round was stripped and the gun would not fire until cleared. I never heard of a bullet actually getting stuck in an MP5 barrel. Even a squib is going down range with a possible failure to eject the brass.

[watchin]

If there is an obstruction in a barrel and either the first round of the day (or the last round of the day) is fired into it the odds of it becoming ringed or bulged are very high. This is for anything that shoots a projectile (MP5s, UZIs, Civil War Cannons, paper straws, etc).
-watchin-

[HKjay223]

I had a bullet stuck in a Uzi barrel .It stopped right inside the trunnion and bulged it enough that I had to beat the barrel out. You cant hurt that trunnion.
Brace the trunnion and beat the back of the barrel with a wood block.

[Vegas SMG]

You cant hurt that trunnion. Bet me! My trunion welds broke after less than 500 rounds... :slap

[watchin]

What make of UZI? (On the other hand, that saved you a lot of hard work by beating on the barrel with a wooden block).
-watchin

[HKjay223]

Bet me! My trunion welds broke after less than 500 rounds... :slap

Welds on a Vector,Yes.
Trunnion, NO.

[HKjay223]

What make of UZI? (On the other hand, that saved you a lot of hard work by beating on the barrel with a wooden block).
-watchin

Mine was a IMI Model A , Group conversion.

[StooperZero]

HOw much of that Barrel is salvageable ?? :D

[K2]

FWIW,

I've made a barrel puller out of a length of 5/16 threaded rod, a barrel diameter nut for the breach end, and a puller bushing that is supported on the trunion. This pulls the barrel from the trunion w/o stressing the trunion welds.

On a severe case I've had to re-cut the threads on the trunion for the barrel nut. Lucky it was a semi conversion. I just turned the SMG barrel to fit the "new" trunion diameter.

Good Luck,

K2

[Golovko]

All my rounds actually leave the barrel of my MP5!! With the MP5 firing with a locked closed bolt, a jammed round would cause the bolt to jam as the next round was stripped and the gun would not fire until cleared. I never heard of a bullet actually getting stuck in an MP5 barrel. Even a squib is going down range with a possible failure to eject the brass.

The MP5 doesn't actually lock in the fashion that most centerfire rifles lock. An MP5 (or even the G3 for that matter) is really just a blowback firearm delayed by mechanical disadvantage. It is quite possible for an MP5 to have a squib stick in the barrel, cycle the action, and then have, say, 12 additional bullets jam up right behind each other.

[Vegas SMG]

Or 13 rounds...

[Oswald2001]

1 squib + 12 additional = 13 :jester


Incredible, BTW.

It's the first time I have ever seen anything like that.

[bendavid25]

13 rounds and 1 lucky ass shooter.

[Generalskins]

I know I'm a little late on this one but the Southern Ammo 9mm +P+ IS nothing but junk. I bought a 2000 round box and when I got it in I was quite disappointed before I even opened it. I guarantee 50 rounds are floating around UPS's warehouses and trucks due to the crappy packaging. Anyway I opened it up and immediately noticed several severely tarnished rounds so I went through it and threw out all of the really crappy ones (about 40 rounds, Oh yeah I also found .38 spec and 380 rounds mixed in with it). Then I loaded up few mags and went to see how they performed. Again, very disappointed. Out of 4 mags I had few duds, 1 where the brass expanded and was very much stuck in my barrel. And then the topper, a squib. Fortunately the projectile hardly left the brass so that the following round wouldn’t even chamber. After that, I sorted the ammo by decade. Here it is broken down by percentages for the 2000ea rounds that I bought.

50's .5%
60's 3%
70's 80% (the majority being 76)
80's .2%
90's 10%
Actually stamped IMI 6%

Anything later than 70's I tossed. I've shot mags since but I/m very cautious. I load mags by decade, 76, or IMI. I also have a spotter to help me ensure the dirt flies after each shot. I’ve only had a few ejection problems since (but now I think that was my extractor). It's a pain in the butt, but I paid for the crap and I'm going to shoot it but I'm not going to jack up my UZI in the process. If you haven't already done so, DO NOT BUY the advertised "9MM IMI +P+ Sub-Machine Gun ammunition" from Southern Ammo. You'll just be paying for a pain in the butt!!! If you’re married, you’ve already done that once so don’t make the same mistake twice. lol