Question about Uzi carbine ID and value

[Banjo]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get some info on an Uzi carbine I've been asked to value. It's a semi-auto 9mm marked "Group Ind. Lou, KY 40214". The model number is HR4332S and it has a light gray finish with green furniture. The serial range is 500xxx. The story I get from the current owner is that the gun was built and sold by Group Industries before they went under and all their invemtory was sold off to Vector. He claims to have checked with Vector, and they have no record of the weapon. Any info at all would be helpful.

Thanks a lot,

Banjo

[RoverDave]

Banjo, welcome to UZI Talk! I hope we'll be hearing more from you.

Yes, this sounds like a Group Industries gun. If it was sold by Vector, it would also be stamped "Vector Arms, NSL. UT" on the left side of the receiver above the pistol grip. (See the receiver markings (http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=674) thread for a picture of it - about half way down.)

The good news is that if there happened to be any problems at all with the gun, Vector would get it running in tip top shape for you.

[JClem555]

There were some GI UZI's sold before the 94 ban.

Here was one on gunbroker about a month ago that was in "very good" used condition. It was pre-ban, with the bayonet lug, and detachable stock:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10046825 (went for $899)

Is the one you are looking at in a pre-ban configuration? Folding/detachable stock, bayonet lug? As RD mentioned, anything from Vector will clearly say Vector on the left side.

[JClem555]

I just took another look at the auction I mentioned above. The lower receiver says "ARS"....Could be an aftermarket one fixed for semi? I have no idea if GI would have put a semi converted full auto lower on one of them from the factory? That was the only original GI I have seen in a while though, so it may still give you some reference for value.

[Banjo]

Thanks for the replies.

This gun has no Vector markings at all... just the Group Ind. stamp. It has a folding stock and looks to be in like-new condition, although there is no box or papers. The current owner may or may not be pulling my chain, but the story is that the gun was originally purchased from an employee at GI (or ex-employee) for $3000.00 and is supposed to have some special "super" metal finish. So far I haven't been able to logically place the gun at anything over about $1,200.00, if that.

The fact that I can't find more direct info (and that there don't seem to be many of these floating around), leads me to believe there might have some rarity to the gun. I just wish I had the reference material to back it up. Were the Group Industry guns of lower quality than IMI? Is that the reason the values don't seem to be there?

Regards,

Banjo

[JClem555]

Well, I do not know the actual numbers of the GI's sold, but I do not think there were a great deal of them. They are not exactly considered a rarity though...Vector bought their remaining stock of full-autos and maybe a few semi auto receivers. A Vector gun will be parkerized and heat treated which has an advantage in longer life (but I have never heard of an UZI "dying"). As for quality, I think that IMI and Vector are at the top, then original GI, then Norinco....If that "super metal finish" is anything like the one in that picture, it is simply parkerized, and you are getting fed a line of BS to put it bluntly. A parkerized finish is good, but nothing special...Do you have any pictures of it?

[Banjo]

Looking at that picture it's hard to tell. It might just be the way the picture was taken, but the finish on the gun I'm talking about seems to be a lighter gray color. I'll snap a few pictures tomorrow and upload them.

Thanks for the help.

[KarlPMann]

Not rare at all, they sold many 1,000's of them. But the number one question would be its pre-ban status. Be aware that ATF is VERY well aware of all the serial numbers of guns that were sold at the auction. There were over 15,000 post ban guns sold at the auction and somewhat less that were sold before GI went out of business. Check to see if all the parts appear original, you can tell if the finish matches. As for the metal, that was all the GI guns, they are heat treated. Value, pre-ban easily over $1K and post ban maybe about ~$800.00. Karl.

[JClem555]

There are a few fancy custom finishes available out there that may be"greyish"...but if the guy did not name the type...I would be a little suspicious of it being anything different than the normal park finish. I have even seen some UZI's custom finished with hard chrome...an almost silver type color, and it is a distinct contrast to the black grips and hardware on most UZI's (in your case, green). A Mac-10 is the classic example of a parkerized finish, that probably everyone looking at UZIs has seen before. Kind of a matte grey color...not shiny at all.

[JClem555]

This one is at gunsamerica.com now...

http://www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976352077-1.jpg

[Banjo]

After seeing the gun again, the finish wasn't as light as I thought. I'll post a few photos here for examination:

http://www.cherrys.com/Uzi1c.jpg

http://www.cherrys.com/Uzi2c.jpg

Any other thoughts/comments?

[KarlPMann]

The finish matches as does the furniture. Same color as all the other GI guns I saw in years past. I'd say it's the real thing, but it's still just a guess. Karl.

[JClem555]

If that is the original finish, which it appears to be, it is a nice looking gun. I would still not consider it worth $3000 or whatever that guy said he paid for it, but your earlier estimate of up to $1200 is probably about right.

[MuzzleFlash]

Originally posted by JClem555
This one is at gunsamerica.com now... Just MHO, but that gun is ugly as a black tennis shoe.:angel3
BTW, hope that's a dummy barrel, SBR or a bolt gun or someone's got a problem.

[JClem555]

Originally posted by MuzzleFlash
Just MHO, but that gun is ugly as a black tennis shoe.:angel3


Haha. Well, it is different. You will have to admit there is a novelty value to it, kind of like those "camo" finish ones that have been talked about recently on the board. I have no plans for buying it though...Wasn't there some kind of two tone one in a Chuck Norris movie...Delta Force or something? You could always buy it and pretend you are a super martial arts action movie star :) .

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0792846869.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[MuzzleFlash]

Originally posted by JClem555
...Wasn't there some kind of two tone one in a Chuck Norris movie...Delta Force or something? You could always buy it and pretend you are a super martial arts action movie star :) . Yeah, I love Hollywood! Can you imagine Deltas all ninja'd up in black face carrying around shiny Uzis?:D I would like a line on those bottomless mags they have in the action sequences too.

[Banjo]

Thanks for the help guys. I think I have a handle on the value now.

Regards,

Banjo