Transferable Mini bolt - Mini / Micro / Full size?

[infoseeker456]

I am interested in getting a mini bolt that is transferable. I understand that a mini bolt can be modified to run in a mini and a micro.

1) Can someone confirm that a mini bolt can run in both a mini and micro? I understand the top of the bolt needs to be recessed for the top cover of the micro.

2) Can a transferable mini bolt have feet? Reason I ask is if a host mini receive can accept a transferable bolt with feet, what is to keep just a regular non transferable bolt from being placed in a mini host? Is there a blocking bar similar to a full size uzi?

3) can a mini bolt run in a full size uzi that isn't a registered receiver? If it can, what must be done to the full size uzi or bolt to make this happen? The idea would be to have a mini bolt that could run in a mini, micro and full size.

4) Can a regular full size bolt be cut down to run in mini and pistol, ie the "frankenbolt" I know its not ideal, but that may be a much more viable from a cost perspective to have it modified than try and find a registered mini bolt which seem somewhat scare.

5) last question, what should I expect to pay for a registered mini bolt with feet these days? Anyone have one for sale recently?

Thank you for the guidance. I do appreciate the help.

[ruarmed]

go here and take a look at price


http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26061


http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26021

[infoseeker456]

I am primarily interested in the first four questions. Any guidance? Thanks

[amphibian]

Check out the links below:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11316

http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/FAconversions_mini.htm

[amphibian]

In addition to reading the links above.
This has been discussed several times and there are more links here but I did a quick search and just pulled up that one.
I'll just type all this stuff again.....

I am interested in getting a mini bolt that is transferable. I understand that a mini bolt can be modified to run in a mini and a micro.

IMHO, I wouldn't do this:
See ATF document here:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter61.txt
Quoted from the article:
"The altered trigger housing assembly that would be removed from the
firearm is in itself a combination of parts designed to convert a
weapon into a machinegun, hence, is a "machinegun" as defined in
the NFA. The assembly would have to be destroyed upon removal/
separation from the firearm."

The Full size and MINI can use the same lower grip frame which obviously needs to be modified for FA (The selector blocking bar needs to removed).
The width of the full size and MINI receivers are the same while the UZI Pistol/MICRO are more narrow.
Obviously, the UZI Pistol's lower would need to be modified for FA use.

So lets say you have your registered bolt in your full size......what now is the legal status of that UZI pistol lower???
According to that ATF document above sounds like it could be considered another MG with no bolt in it. Likewise when the bolt is in the UZI Pistol the same could be said of that full size or MINI with that FA capable lower on it.

The MINI and UZI Pistol both do not have blocking bars.
The MINI was available in open and closed bolt while the MICRO was available only in closed bolt from the factory.
There are no "feet" on the closed bolt assemblies.
So, if you have that modified lower on your MINI or UZI Pistol and drop in a factory IMI FA closed bolt, you would have FA fire.
Also note that the closed bolts are machined from IMI to clear the restrictor ring too.

My links above mention not messing with the trunion based on passed judgements of ATF regarding the Fleming MINI sear guns which ATF initially determined was creating a new MG but grandfathered what he did in 1988.

So based on all that, I personally think that if you really want to have one bolt do mulitiple UZI versions, the only safe way to go would be to use it in a MINI and full size and have only ONE modified lower.
Then have a bolt that is cut to work in an UNmodified MINI trunion.
Like the one pictured below:
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/FAconversions/modifiedfeet.jpg


1) Can someone confirm that a mini bolt can run in both a mini and micro? I understand the top of the bolt needs to be recessed for the top cover of the micro.


Yes it would work but...
3 Options:
1. Modify the trunions. Again, I personally believe this to be illegal. Again, this is analagous to removing the bolt blocking rail in a full size.
Yes, I know there are companies and indiviuals that will do this and think it's ok. Use your own judgement but I prefer to err on the side of caution.
2. Have no feet which will have issues on the first round
3. Have very tiny feet that would go in an unmodified UZI Pistol trunion.
See pic below to give you an idea of the "crack" it has to slide into.

http://www.c3junkie.com/uzi/info/conv/fact_micro1.jpg


2) Can a transferable mini bolt have feet? Reason I ask is if a host mini receive can accept a transferable bolt with feet, what is to keep just a regular non transferable bolt from being placed in a mini host? Is there a blocking bar similar to a full size uzi?


As mentioned already, it is the (1) trunion that stops a regular SMG open bolt from dropping in.
and (2) the barrel restrictor ring - note that Group Industries also made MINI UZI bolts which were made to clearance the restrictor rings so with a Group MINI Bolt, ONLY the trunion would stop the Open bolt from working.
Again, Group made their Full Size UZI open bolts clearanced to go over the ring also. So only the bolt blocking rail would stop you from putting their bolt into the full size. See the analogy to the MINI's trunion?


3) can a mini bolt run in a full size uzi that isn't a registered receiver? If it can, what must be done to the full size uzi or bolt to make this happen? The idea would be to have a mini bolt that could run in a mini, micro and full size.


As most registered bolts should be slotted, yes it would work (provided it is a slotted mini bolt like the one pictured below:
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/FAconversions/convertedFAbolt.jpg
And yes, someone could cut down a full size bolt and leave modified feet to work in an unmodified MINI trunion and it would work fine in a full size as well.


4) Can a regular full size bolt be cut down to run in mini and pistol, ie the "frankenbolt" I know its not ideal, but that may be a much more viable from a cost perspective to have it modified than try and find a registered mini bolt which seem somewhat scare.


As I answered to the last question, yes it can be done and IMHO would be better since most registered MINI bolts had the feet cut off like the one pictured above. If you started with a full size, you could have your C2 or machinist cut it and leave the feet.


5) last question, what should I expect to pay for a registered mini bolt with feet these days? Anyone have one for sale recently?


What you seek is not all that common. As mentioned most registered MINI bolts are full size UZI bolt's that were cut down and they didn't leave the feet.
There are also some registered bolts out there that are just factory MINI open bolts that someone engraved the serial number on that originally were on some slotted full registered full size bolt and they made that bolt disappear which is of course illegal.
I'm sorry if my post may have upset some readers but this is what I believe to be legally correct.
Again, I choose to err on the side of caution.

[Quarterbore]

I am curious if anybody has any knowledge on the problems with doing a conversion of a full sized rBolt to a mini with skinny feet, who does the conversion, and roughly what the cost might be?

I am not seriousy considering this yet but I just missed a good deal on a Full Sized bolt and if I happen to fall into a good deal on a full sized rBolt I might just buy it if I can get it reworked to use with the Mini. The bolt was local and it was only $3000 for a B&G bolt on Form 4.

For that deal, I would do this in a heart beat! Otherwise, I would prefer a Mini registered receiver....

[amphibian]

Otherwise, I would prefer a Mini registered receiver....

The only way you're going to get a transferrable RR MINI is that it will be either a cut down re-weld. Group or IMI receiver that was re-welded by Vector and a few were done by Fleming and maybe some others.

[Quarterbore]

Yea, I meant a Vector Mini...

Thanks for the e-mail!