Selling an SBR

[Dave]

I have a Mini with an SBR done in my name. I'm going to part with it, so exactly what is involved in the transfer to the new owner?

Next question, what is a good asking price (9mm/IMI)? I bought it new and it has less than 100 rounds through it.

[UZI SBR AWC]

I have a Mini with an SBR done in my name. I'm going to part with it, so exactly what is involved in the transfer to the new owner?
In-state -- ATF 5320.4,,,,, out of state, be (2) taxes due, you transfer to SOT in buyers state with 5320.4, it out of your hands then, buyer does 5320.4 from SOT.



.

[DBinTexas]

Question - Is your personal name engraved on it?

Suggestion - Recommend you post pic.

I have SBR mini, that was done by Vector... curious to see what yours may bring.
Good luck!

[Dave]

Question - Is your personal name engraved on it?

Yep, my name.

[terma-nator]

Yep, my name.

This might make it hard for someone to buy.
I myself wouldn't want someone elses name on my gun. I would pay to have it removed (which vector can do).
It will most likely mean that you will have to reduce the price some.

Since I've seen IMI Mini's going for around $1800.00, you might get $1500.00 for it.

[RoverDave]

I would pay to have it removed (which vector can do)

The name could not be completely removed unless the gun was taken off the NFA registry. It could be moved to the barrel if it isn't already.

[terma-nator]

The name could not be completely removed unless the gun was taken off the NFA registry. It could be moved to the barrel if it isn't already.

That is fairly obvious. Everyone knows that.

[RoverDave]

You should read some old posts. Clearly some people don't know it.

[Dave]

That is fairly obvious. Everyone knows that.
I didn't know...guess I'm an idiot :)

[LGustin]

Correct me if I am wrong, I was told recently that putting the SBR or SBS info on the barrel is not really kosher, it needs to be on the receiver. With that said, could the new owner have it registered in HIS name for the same $200 transfer?

[emerz]

Issues like this is why most will recommend that do not SBR a gun unless you are really sure you are going to be keeping it.

[Oblofusc]

Options:

1) Put a 19" barrel on it. (Maybe you already have one.) Then write to BATFE and ask them to remove your gun from the NFRTR ("de-SBR" it). They will do it and confirm with a letter. In addition to the cost of the barrel, it costs $.41 in postage and will probably take a few weeks turnaround, if that. Now your gun is just a "normal" Title I firearm and can be sold accordingly. Maybe the buyer wants to SBR it, maybe not. If they do, you can sell them the barrel once they registered it as an SBR.

2) Sell it as an SBR to someone in your home state via a Form 4. $200 tax.

3) If an out of state buyer wants to buy it as an SBR, it's a two-tax gun. One tax on the transfer from you to a dealer in the buyer's home state, another from that dealer to the buyer. That wouldn't really make sense. Better for you to de-SBR it per above, send it to him, and then let him Form 1 it if he feels like it. Only one tax there.

SBR maker's ID may be engraved on the receiver or the barrel. According to the CFR it doesn't matter which. On a gun like an Uzi, with a quick detach barrel, putting the info on the bottom of the barrel makes a lot of sense.

[DBinTexas]

This whole issue is why I sent my Mini-pistol to Vector to be SBRed... I may have paid a couple bucks more, but its very saleable and didnt hurt investment value, IMHO, if I later sell it because it only says Vector on it.

Food for thought....

[bradhenn]

You can file a Form 1 on your own if you want to make an SBR. you just register the receiver with Vector's name and address, and original serial number. You don't need additional markings or SNs.

You don't have to send it to the manufacturer to not have your name engraved on the gun. Its in the new NFA handbook from the ATF.

I'm just waiting for the Form 1 to come back before I shorten the tube on my SA Vector.

[raf32]

I had my UZI done as a SBR and the name must be engraved on the reciever. I put mine on the bottom of the reciever where the stock folds under.

[bradhenn]

Not to argue, but you're wrong on the engraving your name on the gun thing.

Might look cool, but it isn't required unless you made the gun yourself from parts and it was never a class 1 gun in the first place.


Call the NFA branch in Atlanta. They're the ones who told me. I did a form 1 from a Vector uzi SBR and used them as the manufacturer.

I know lots of guys have the name on their SBRs nowadays, but it isn't required under the NFA act unless you make the gun from parts.

If you modify an existing firearm (ie: shorten the barrel) you may use the existing SN and manufacturer name and address on the form 1, hence no dremel on the receiver is necessary.

NFA branch even sent a determination letter out stating the fact.

Not trying to stir the pot, but there's too many guns out there with 'bob smith' or whatever on their gun that should just be saying 'vector' or 'imi' or 'hk' or whatever.


Still don't believe me? Please see 2(h) on page one of the Form1 instructions that follow, right from the ATF. 'original manufactuer' is not the guy cutting the barrel down under 16", its the 'original manufactuer' of the class 1 weapon.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/appendix_c-rev.pdf

One thing though, this applies to newly made SBRs, not to items already in the registry.

[9mmsubgun-m11]

I SBR'd my IMI Mod B 3 years ago and never engraved anything.Form 1 states IMI as manufacturer.

[johnnywitt]

I called and asked BATFE Agent Clutter about this because I want to SBS my Benelli M4's and get a B&G TP-9 to SBR. He said you HAVE to engrave on the receiver. So, here's the problem, you even have ATF Agents who can't seem to agree on this, so what do you do to stay out of trouble? I'm hesitant to SB'r anything now because of the confusion and the fact I don't want to have problems later in the re-sale arena. Who wants a friggen expensive NFA gun with somebody else's name and city on it and what's gonna happen when you get pulled over and try to explain this to "Brother" Tyrone Washington who's an Atlanta cop (and a Black Muslim Louis Farrakan supportor) on your way up to the the Georgia Silencer Shoot.

[bradhenn]

This link shows the letter from the head of the NFA branch saying no additional markings required. Borrowed from an HK friend and linked.


http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=atffinalsbrverdict0px.jpg

[Oblofusc]

This link shows the letter from the head of the NFA branch saying no additional markings required. Borrowed from an HK friend and linked.


http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=atffinalsbrverdict0px.jpg

I am pretty sure a second letter followed this one, or one just like it, which corrected the earlier letter indicasting it was INCORRECT, and that per the CFR, a person making an SBR or SBS MUST engrave their name/address on the receiver or barrel.

It's pretty clear in the CFR. THAT is the law. What some field agent tells someone on the phone is not.

Run this on the Bowers NFA discussion board, I know there are people there who have copies of the letter, and the correcting follow up.

Having said that, I am not at all convinced that anyone, including the ATF, gives a crap or not if someone who makes an SBR doesn't mark it. I mean, you've already paid the tax, the ATF already knows who you are, and what the gun is, and its serial number, and where you live, so . . . what's the point of marking it? I would guess that IF anyone ever bothered to notice that it wasn't marked, the "penalty" would be that they'd tell you you needed to mark it.

However, having said THAT, if it's not marked, technically it's a felony, because I think there's a catch-all at the end of that CFR section which says something like, "failure to comply with any of the above provisions [which includes the basic tax & registration process] is punishable as a felony."

So go forth and do as you deem wise.