Uncontrollable

[yzfchet]

I just got back from the Big Sandy shoot and the guy in the next firing position over had a Ruger AC-556. I watched him and his late-teens son shoot it and the thing almost jumped out of their hands on automatic fire. The dad was a fairly big dude, too. I had to ask if that was a standard AC-556 and they said "yep". I asked if I could try it and they said "Yep".

I loaded a magazine with XM193 55gr. and plugged it in. I shot a couple of rounds on semi and was suprised at the amount of barrel flip - I guess with that short of a barrel and no compensator it's to be expected. Then I shot a three round burst. Talk about climbing to the sky! I tried again holding it tight and tensing all my arm muscles to really try to hold it on target. Four rounds and impacts traced up the hillside. Okay, I mentally became the Terminator and held that gun so firmly nothing was going to move it more than 1/4 inch off target. I emptied the mag and started laughing at how much real estate got leaded.

That is one of the hardest-to-keep-on-target select fire weapons I have ever shot. Like an M14 but without the big recoil. Is that normal? I know these guys said it was a standard AC-556 (fixed stock, not a folder) but HOLY SMOKES the barrel flip is unbelievable!

Let me know if this typical of these guns. It seems strange that people would buy these if they're that hard to control. There must have been something weird with that one...:thinking

[tommygun2000]

Pretty normal for the AC556.

[JasonAC556]

I loaded a magazine with XM193 55gr. and plugged it in. I shot a couple of rounds on semi and was suprised at the amount of barrel flip - I guess with that short of a barrel and no compensator it's to be expected.

How short was the barrel? A standard rifle has an 18in. barrel. The folder has a 13in. barrel. Could be they had a shorty in a fixed stock?

Then I shot a three round burst. Talk about climbing to the sky! I tried again holding it tight and tensing all my arm muscles to really try to hold it on target. Four rounds and impacts traced up the hillside. Okay, I mentally became the Terminator and held that gun so firmly nothing was going to move it more than 1/4 inch off target. I emptied the mag and started laughing at how much real estate got leaded.

That is one of the hardest-to-keep-on-target select fire weapons I have ever shot. Like an M14 but without the big recoil. Is that normal? I know these guys said it was a standard AC-556 (fixed stock, not a folder) but HOLY SMOKES the barrel flip is unbelievable!

Let me know if this typical of these guns. It seems strange that people would buy these if they're that hard to control. There must have been something weird with that one...:thinking

I will admit the standard stock model is hard to control without a LOT of practice. I mounted mine in a pistol grip stock with a forward verticle grip. This helps a lot with muzzle climb. Using the sling with the standard stock also helps, but it still takes a lot of practice to keep it controllable.

[sswikinger]

"Pretty normal for the AC556"

Not in my experience with my 18" barrel AC556. The description above sounds like shooting a M14 in full-auto, not a regular barrel length AC556. My 2-3 shot dispersion was about 6" at 15'. I had my son make me a muzzle brake and it immediately halved the distance.

[yzfchet]

How short was the barrel? A standard rifle has an 18in. barrel. The folder has a 13in. barrel. Could be they had a shorty in a fixed stock?


I just took a look at the various models on another website - it must have been a shorty mounted in a fixed stock. The barrel sure wasn't as long as the standard 18" barrel, but I don't remember it being as short as a folder, either. Custom barrel length? Somewhere in-between the two? I thought Ruger didn't offer any modifications for these rifles. Anyway, it seems from the replies that my experience was not that unique.

[sswikinger]

yzfchet, here's a video of my AC556 with my muzzlebrake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAL8p6PMq4

I think if you check out the other AC556 videos with full-auto mag dumps, you wont see any excessive barrel flip.

[MarkV]

yzfchet, here's a video of my AC556 with my muzzlebrake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAL8p6PMq4

I think if you check out the other AC556 videos with full-auto mag dumps, you wont see any excessive barrel flip.

my experience with the ac556 is much like this vid and my mini folder shoots very much like the ac does in semi.

seems like functional muzzle breaks, recoil pads, and aftermarket stocks can go a long way to tame the fire breathing beastie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUrSgLCYrU8&NR=1

[ateamrob]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v673/5150rob/?action=view&current=MOV00960.flv

here is me at our last MG shoot with my shorty AC-556K on R&R (FA) and I am dumping a 30rd mag and then a 40rd mag (the 40 jammed halfway through as you can see... damn cheapo mags... ha ha) .
Normally I always use the stock and shoot from the "Ready Up" position but we were having some fun towards the end of the day when all the renters left and we got to play with our toys doing some hip shooting. I dont even have the stock extended and my AC shorty handles GREAT!!! No climb whatsoever totally from the hip. I always thought the Rugers were real stable....


Rob

[ateamrob]

As far as comparing the AC to its related brothers......here is me shooting my buddies M16 and AK47.

these handle great as well.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v673/5150rob/?action=view&current=MOV00962.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v673/5150rob/?action=view&current=MOV00948.flv

[ateamrob]

ok now this baby is hard to get ahold of... ha ha....

my buddies 308 H&K belt fed.... this freakin monster is a beast and this one does take some getting used to....

Rob

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v673/5150rob/?action=view&current=MOV00953.flv

[ateamrob]

sorry to get off on a rant there..... :cool

ok back to the controllability of the AC-556

[AKman]

Don't know what you all talking about but i have 18 full ac556 and i have no problem its almost like the m4 (was it the one 762x39 mods you shot?) personally its 100x more controllable then chines ak47 in 762x39

[Mike85220]

I remember shooting my first 1911-A1 at a gun range called Gilbert Small Arms range in Springfield VA. This .45ACP handgun was to be the first I have ever shot. Knowing how much my Dad and friends hyped up the .45ACP cartridge I expected the worse. Back in 1989 it was seen as a challenge, sort of like someone trying the Desert Eagle .50AE for the first time.

The point:

I shot this rental gun at the range and OMFG it kicked. I was hooked, and bought one as soon as I turned 21. What was baffling, is the LE Springfield .45ACP I bought had very little recoil. I wasn't disappointed, just a little baffled at first. I thought it over and figured the 1911-A1 I rented must have had a very worn out recoil spring in it.

I have also had this happen with an HK-33 I shot at Rio Salado. This particular HK-33 had a lot of oscillation and it bucked. The HK-33 is touted as one of the smoother shooting 5.56mm assault rifles and yet this one was anything but.

I am betting the AC-556 that shot in the sky by the 5th round was due to the recoil spring being compressed and worn from usage. It may also have a gas port issue. Possibly the gas port was drilled out a tad larger. Some people have done this to the 13" model AC rifles to make the bolt cycle a little more reliably. Some need this mod and some seem to not need it. This could be because some shoot .223 and realize the bolt does not always cycle, even though Ruger says both .223 and 5.56x45mm should run fine.

Anyways, the owner of that AC needs to get a new recoil spring and possibly check the gas system.

[Mike85220]

Just so people know, Ruger does make a select-fire 7.62x39 Mini-30 variant.
What is cool is that it uses AK-47 magazines.

Think about why the commercial Mini-30 does not use AK-47 magazines.
Thanks Bill Ruger...

[piratesover40]

I used to have FA AK47 and never once did I have control issues with it. There must be something wrong with that gun to make it uncontrolable. Even sswikinger with his muzzle had problems looks like to me. :mg

[phagar]

"Pretty normal for the AC556"

Not in my experience with my 18" barrel AC556. The description above sounds like shooting a M14 in full-auto, not a regular barrel length AC556.


I disagree ! I have a M14 E2 that will hold a 30 rd. magazine dump on full auto in a 15" target at 100 Yds.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-2.jpg

[Vegas SMG]

I have a M14 E2 that will hold a 30 rd. magazine dump on full auto in a 15" target at 100 Yds. Yeah... Everything I know and have learned about this great battle rifle I owe to my friend and M1A / M14 guru, "Different". He literally wrote the book on the M14, (well one of them anyway), and I'm proud to have a couple of my photos in the book. http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/

I've had just a tad bit of hands on experience with his factory gun over the years. What a wonderful and accurate weapon in semi auto, but all 30 rounds in a 15" group at 100 yards? Maybe from the prone position with the bi-pod.

I'd pay to see that standing unsupported. I'm from Missouri... The SHOW ME STATE.

[AKman]

First of m14e2 is world apart from the regular m14 (like the hk21 and hk21e) second i love ak47 the m76 is 762x39 is absolutely lovely but the regular chines gun are not (the control is no problem but the ac556 is much nicer) and ac556 can be converted to 762x39 and yes you are going to lose you factory warranty (something am not going to do ever)


My first mp5 i shot was wartorn POS it was inaccurate jammed and not smooth (was getting faster as it fired) the one i have is smooth accurate reliable smg so yeah unless you fire factory new guns you do get a inaccurate opinion thx for the story mike

[Vegas SMG]

First of m14e2 is world apart from the regular m14 ....Do you know the actual differences between the models other than the stock?

[AKman]

Do you know the actual differences between the models other than the stock?

I am not an export in m14 fired both the regular rifle is harder to shot then regular fal then e2 is like fal vs hfal (nicer but it sucks)
if you ask me itake g3 over m14 and bm59 over all of the above

[Vegas SMG]

1) Muzzle stabilizer: M14E2 will have it, the M14 definitely will not.
2) Sling: M14E2 will have a M1918 BAR sling, the M14 will have a M1 Garand canvas or M14 nylon web sling.
3) Bipod: M14E2 will have the M2 bipod attached to the gas cylinder, the M14 (by definition) will not.
4) Hand guard: M14E2 will have the slotted fiberglass hand guard (by definition), the M14 will usually have a solid fiberglass hand guard

The M2 bipod, M1918 BAR sling and the M14E2 stock all work together to help control the M14E2 in automatic. The M14E2 muzzle stabilizer also helps (significantly) to keep the muzzle down and straight.

Now you know.

[AKman]

Now you know.
thx for info
What i Don't understand why so many ppl have the regular m14 and not convert it to E2 ?is that hard?

[Vegas SMG]

Not really. The simple addition of the listed parts and you've got your self an upgraded model. Much the same as popping on a new upper on an existing M16 and you've got yourself an updated M4 version. As they say, it ain't rocket science.

There were actually three versions of the M14E2:

M14 (USAIB) - March 1962
M14E2 - November 1963
M14A1 - April 1966

All three versions offered a wooden pistol grip and a vertical fore grip. The pistol grip is a separate piece of wood that is doweled and glued on to the stock body. The changes between the M14E2 and M14A1 are slight refinements in the M14A1.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack for this brief history lesson and perhaps we can close it here. IMHO, the AC56 isn't as controllable as the DI operation of the M-16 series which was the original poster's observations. If you replace the M-16's D.I. system with a piston upper, you'll have a better apples to apples comparison of smoothness and controllability between it and the Ruger.

[garandman]

IMHO, the AC56 isn't as controllable as the DI operation of the M-16 series which was the original poster's observations. If you replace the M-16's D.I. system with a piston upper, you'll have a better apples to apples comparison of smoothness and controllability between it and the Ruger.

I'd agree with this assessment. The M16 prolly has the better controllability over the stock form of the AC556 (which is why I bought the SCAR tock, to get more of a linear stock like the M16)

Now when you add a piston upper to the M16, you get a very different recoil "feel." Fairly similar to the AC.

Since I wanted a piston gun, I went with the 13" AC556 (well, that and the bux involved) which I plan on shooting with a can.

Once I get my AC556, I'll see what can be done about muzzle rise (brakes, etc) Heck, the weight of the can will prolly solve the whole problem.

[Vegas SMG]

I agree with all your above statements. I think you'll find the can negates some of the recoil and helps with the muzzle rise.

I did shoot a new Bushmaster piston upper combined with a MGI buffer three weeks ago and it was MUCH smoother than I would have ever expected. I'm really sold on the MGI buffers even if they are spendy.

[AKman]

I agree with all your above statements. I think you'll find the can negates some of the recoil and helps with the muzzle rise.

I did shoot a new Bushmaster piston upper combined with a MGI buffer three weeks ago and it was MUCH smoother than I would have ever expected. I'm really sold on the MGI buffers even if they are spendy.

i have HK416 but whats the story with MGI buffers ?

[Vegas SMG]

Check the M16 forums for your answers on the MGI buffer. There's a nice discussion going on now. We've hi-jacked this thread enough.