PDA

View Full Version : Joe Black products and more...


Vegas SMG
09-14-2004, 12:12 AM
Some time back, I boxed up a package with several jobs for Joe Black to work on. After receiving the finished items back, it took me a few weeks to get out and function check his work, but the cooler weather and restart of our local subgun matches after a two month summer break "forced" me into several hours of shooting over the weekend.

1.) Honestly, my 40 something eyes aren't what they once were, and I now require reading glasses for any close up reading/work. Aligning the front sight with the rear and then placing it on target has become increasingly difficult. I had Joe install one of his Weaver rails on a surplus UZI top cover I supplied so I could move up to the open class and use optics. I topped it off with an Eotech holo sight and the combination is nothing short of fantastic! Super fast target acquisition and the Eotech is very, very bright, something that's critical with our cloudless desert sky and intense sun. It will take some adjustment on my part to keep both eyes open, but I'm completely satisfied.

2.) Mounting optics on the top cover almost dictates the use of his side cocking lever. Yep, I had him install his one finger side cockers while he was transforming the top cover. This thing works as good as it looks, and it looks GREAT. It will take me some time to adjust to the side cocker after using the factory top mounted knob for many thousands upon thousands of rounds but It will almost certainly be worth it.

3.) After reading many threads regarding M16 hammer pin breakage, (and actually breaking one myself in my RR Colt), and suffering possible damage to the receiver's hammer pin hole, I mailed Joe my M16/9 bolt for his ramping service. I've never really enjoyed shooting my M16 in 9mm because it just feels too "jumpy", but I'm an accessory whore and had to have a 9mm upper. I know some people prefer the M16/9 to other subguns, (fires from a closed bolt), but the high cost of factory mags with the last round bolt hold open feature, and the jumpiness I described have never made it one of my favorite subguns. Joe's ramping is nicely done, and it seems to have removed at least some of the jumpiness. I let a friend use it in his M16/9, and he was VERY impressed with what he perceived as a pronounced reduction in the level of jumpiness. Neither of us could decern a change in the ROF as opposed to an unramped bolt without any material removed. Both guns were using an AAC rate reducer, so any change in the ROF should be minimal anyway. Joe, how much weight is actually removed with the ramping process, and have you ever timed the before and after ROF? Again, I'm satisfied and considered this operation as insurance against a damaged transferable receiver, but it SEEMS to have a positive side effect on controlability.

4.) I also mailed Joe a Vector made UZI drum to be cut for use in the M16/9. The cut is clean and looks identical when compaired to other converted UZI mags, but for some reason, spent cases fail to clear the chamber and are crushed every second or third round in FA. I'm not sure if the problem is there in semi or not... didn't think to try it. I did push the drum up and hold it tightly while firing and pulled it down while firing, neither had an effect on functioning. I know the process Joe uses to identify the area for cutting the additional slot and it seems like the way to go, but for some reason it didn't work in my gun using an ASA mag well adapter. All my stick mags continue to work well, and the drum still runs perfectly in the Vector UZI. Maybe these should be cut with the owner's particular mag well adapter as Lee Minor of LRM insists on. Heck, 3 out of 4 ain't bad and I haven't contacted Joe regarding this problem.

All in all, I'm happy with the work! Thanks Joe!

dickwholliday
09-14-2004, 10:11 PM
JoeBlack is da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dick

M60joe
09-15-2004, 12:08 PM
Joe, how much weight is actually removed with the ramping process, and have you ever timed the before and after ROF?

The material removed from the bolt can almost be considered nothing and isn't why the gun runs smother. The non ramped bolt re cocks the hammer in a fraction of a inch of the bolt travel where as the ramped bolt re cocks the hammer in 1 1/4" of travel of the bolt. The non ramped bolt cocking the hammer that way was intentional to slow the rate of fire. The "jumpiness" you feel is less in the ramped bolt do to the hammer cocking in a more laminar flow and the increase in the ROF makes the "jumpiness" feel less as well.

I have offered adding Tungsten weight to bolts on my website. I do not like adding the weight to the bolts and I need to add that disclaimer. With the AAC rate reducer and a weighted bolt, the gun shoots very "jumpy". I rather have a little higher rate of fire and a smother running gun. (IMHO)

First thing to check on your drum.
Double check if the extractor is fully engaging the case extraction grove on the cartridges. Take a black magic marker and rub it over the grooves on several cartridges. Shoot the gun and look at the spent cartridges to see if the black was rubbed off deep into the extraction groove. If not you have a head space issue.

When modifying UZI magazines for the M16 one can bend the mag follower so the rounds aren't pointing up so much. Then the rounds in the mag don't come in contact with the spent cartridge the bolt is ready to eject. On the drums, you cant modify the follower. Double check your head space. If it's fine, send the drum back to me and I will look at it.

Vegas SMG
09-17-2004, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the reply! I hope to go out tomorrow for a bit and I'll take a black Sharpie marker with me and check the extractor marks. Heck, I'd like to compare them with the UZI just for grins. I can say the upper runs well as it always has with various stick mags and it's never been a problem child. Early Colt 10 1/2" barreled upper and ASA mag well adapter. I'll also take a look at the bullet angle as they sit in the mag vs. drum. Curious how you would head space a 9mm conversion as the barrel simply screws into the upper until tight? I'ver never noticed any "issues" with the spent cases, but I'll pay close attention to those as well. The barrel and chamber of the gun was well cleaned prior to testing, and all bolt contact surfaces were lubed as normal.

M60joe
09-18-2004, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by Vegas SMG
I've never noticed any "issues" with the spent cases, but I'll pay close attention to those as well. The barrel and chamber of the gun was well cleaned prior to testing, and all bolt contact surfaces were lubed as normal.

If she is a good runner, most likely you don't have a head space issue. But , good to check. I've repaired about 5 head space issues in the last year or so. I've either removed material off the end of the barrel or off the face of the bolt. IIRC a couple of them were Colt barrels and generic bolts. Let me know.