Waiting on a L34A1 - MK5

[motorgun]

I really like Uzis but after all the great things I have read about Sterlings I finally bit the bullet. Does anyone out there have experience with the MK5's?

[drw]

Congrats! I have seen a member post that he owns a MK5 and I am sure he will make himself known here shortly. I would appreciate knowing more specifics and see some photos when possible. Is yours a true MK5 or an adaptation of a MK4? 1 stamp or 2? As I am sure you have read here, many of us are struggling with a method for suppressing our MK4's. Have you had the opportunity to fire yours and a MK4? How did the ROF compare? Is your barrel full length and perforated or shortened to reduce velocity?

[L34A1]

I have a little Knowledge on the L34A1. What would you like to know?

[motorgun]

The one I am waiting on is a two stamp. Looks exactly like your picture. The tube is Wilson and the suppressed barrel is by Don's Guns in Florida. It is also coming with a standard barrel but I am not 100% sure that it can used.

Do you have any experience with either of these manufacturers? Also, how quiet is the MK5 compared to say an Uzi with an MK9 suppressor?

Thanks

[L34A1]

Originally posted by motorgun
The one I am waiting on is a two stamp. Looks exactly like your picture. The tube is Wilson and the suppressed barrel is by Don's Guns in Florida. It is also coming with a standard barrel but I am not 100% sure that it can used.

Do you have any experience with either of these manufacturers? Also, how quiet is the MK5 compared to say an Uzi with an MK9 suppressor?

Thanks

I had a bad experience with Don Quinell that ended in a law suit. You can check the Board of Inquiry on subguns.com for all the info. I will not go into that here. It involved my first L34A1. I had to build another with John Andrewski. Doug Melton with SRT designed the suppressor on the 2nd unit. My gun is a reg reciever that I converted over to the L34A1 using a factory L34 as the template. Since there are no transferables available, one must convert a Mk4 or a Mk6 semi that was converted prior to 1986. How quiet? I can not speak for anyone elses can except Doug Meltons unit and in one word I will say "scary". The L34A1 was the first truly integral unit that was mass produced by a company. H & K FOLLOWED the George Patchett design as they (and UZI) were in competition in the 1960's to produce the silent smg. There is no comparision between the L34 and any other suppressed smg. I will stand corrected when I am proved otherwise. The MP5-SD uses the same bleed off system which produces a poor power factor with 115/124gr foddlers. I got around that using the L34 because its barrel is removeable by the user and the porting can be changed to accomadate 147/158 gr foddlers. You might be able to do the same. The bolt noise/slap on the barrel/trunion gives the L34A1 the advantage over the UZI. This is why the L34 is quieter than the UZI. This of course is my opinion.

[L34A1]

The Mk4 has a reduced stock length for my wife. I am making a rear Doctor mount for her as well.

[motorgun]

This is what I found on the BOI - are we talking about the same Don? I have dealt with Ruben a lot and respect his opinion-

He is an artist, has done work for me for over a decade, he just keeps getting better and better.

Recently he restored a gun for my personal collection and it turned out to be museum quality.

Thank you Don!

Proudly,

Ruben A Mendiola Jr

[L34A1]

Originally posted by motorgun
This is what I found on the BOI - are we talking about the same Don? I have dealt with Ruben a lot and respect his opinion-

He is an artist, has done work for me for over a decade, he just keeps getting better and better.

Recently he restored a gun for my personal collection and it turned out to be museum quality.

Thank you Don!

Proudly,

Ruben A Mendiola Jr

I deal with Ruben here in south Florida. I know Ruben well and I value his opinion. You asked me about mine. I sent you two documents. One is the post that I put on Subguns years ago, the second is my sworn statement to BATF that they have on file. Many people have different experiances. BTW, if anyone has a serial number on the mag well of their Sterling that reads S-4058, those are the parts that Don stole from me years ago and I have the bill of sale from PS Arms to prove it. They came from a 1970's production L34A1 that was cut up for my parts.

[motorgun]

Here is a Picture of the M5.

[L34A1]

Have you shot it yet? How does the front end attach?

[motorgun]

Have not yet received it. Everything approved and will receive it next week. After I shoot it I will post some better pics and impressions.

[Leroy]

This is in response to TFA's quote


I had a bad experience with Don Quinell that ended in a law suit. You can check the Board of Inquiry on subguns.com for all the info. I will not go into that here

Best you NOT go into it here? I think that YOU did.
He sued you and YOU lost. I would like to see the plaintiff and defendant accusations instead of searching a BOI of accusations.
The way I understand it, you are walking around with a free sterling and you are here dissin Don?
Why don't you pay up with Don?
BTW what happened to AGB Ent.?

Y'all had nice shirts at the creek:buttkick

[L34A1]

Originally posted by Leroy
This is in response to TFA's quote




Best you NOT go into it here? I think that YOU did.
He sued you and YOU lost. I would like to see the plaintiff and defendant accusations instead of searching a BOI of accusations.
The way I understand it, you are walking around with a free sterling and you are here dissin Don?
Why don't you pay up with Don?
BTW what happened to AGB Ent.?

Y'all had nice shirts at the creek:buttkick

In all due respect, I am still waiting for the return of my L34A1 factory parts. You are right, Don sued me for $2500, the work that he billed me for was $500, the Judge awarded him $150. Last time I checked, even a Sterling was more money than $500. How could I be walking around with a free Sterling? Don did not build that gun, Andrewski did and now it is long been sold. Leroy, you know nothing about this case unless you are Don Quinell himself. You can read the BATF statements and the Lee County courthouse records. I attempted two pay Don on three attempts. I have the certified mail receipts, but for some reason Don did not cash my checks. I am stating the facts. Not to challenge your intelligence, but I would think, since you can post here, you would know how to find out the status of AGB ENT. (Division of Corporations and a computer. hint , hint)

[John C]

Leroy, although TFA said they wouldn't get into their problem with Don's guns and then did, they were responding to a post from motorgun asking TFA if they have "...any experience with either of these manufacturers?".

You should do a search on Sturmgewehr and subguns.com for Don's Guns and you will find posts pro and con about his work. I follow those strings (because I bought and then canceled the saleof a MK4 from him) and it seems Don's quality is hit & miss.

Some guys have guns they consider perfect, some (like me) had a bad experience and wouldn't touch one. One fellow I know has a Don's gun MK5 which I've fondled and it looks perfect.

HTH, John C.

[Vegas SMG]

Motorgun, looking at the photo, it appears that the cocking slot is rather wide. Is your gun a STEnling? And to answer your question, I have had the chance to examine on of Don's Sterlings along side an Andrewski built gun and they both looked better than great. The durability of these weapons will be the be the key here and I've heard of reliability issues with Don's guns BUT, I have zero first hand experience. I will say that I witnessed the new Don Quinell gun experience a FTE it's first time out at one of our matches. Not heresay, I saw this with my own eyes.

[John C]

Hey, either Quinnell built your receiver backwards (with the mag well on the right side) or am I the first one to realize that motorguns pic is printed backwards? Do I win a prize?

Vegas, I HAVE had first hand with a Quinnell Sterling that I bought from Doug Oefinger a few years ago. I flew down to Doug's shop to look it over and canceled the order when I found defects bad enough that I didn't want them fixed.

John C.

[Leroy]

Defects, hmmm wonder what the defects were......:argue

[John C]

Leroy, while I don't like to criticize anyone's work publically neither do I wish anyone on the Board to buy a firearm from him without the benefit of my actual experience.

When I "bought" the Quinnell Sterling I knew from searches on Sturmgewehr and subguns.com that Quinnell's work was hit & miss. That's why I told DLO I was going to fly to Florida to check it out. (No, I'm not rich but I have over 500,000 frequent flier miles on USAir).

Before going any further, plenty of folks have bought Quinnell Sterlings lately, one a buddy, and the overall experience seems to be positive.

Without going into it too deeply, the gun DLO sold me had a poor paint job; the end cap wouldn't lock up so it was possible to push it in while the stock was open and the stock could fold during firing; the charging handle rewelding job (STEnling tube) was rough and the raw cut edges on the charging handle were left sharp and never filed smooth or filled in with weld metal; and my personal favoirte, the sear would jam after one round and completely lock up the receiver. DLO told me this was due to the sear notch in the tube not being correctly located. It would have to be welded up and recut and the paint job redone. This happened on DLO's shop gun too.

Enough defects for me. I ended up canceling the Sterling, buying a DLO tube and had John Andrewski build me a beautiful, perfect gun.

John C.

[Leroy]

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation.
I personally have never examined an John Andrewski Sterling, seen a couple of Stans, maybe one, can't remember.
But I have shot and have seen people shoot other peoples builds for a long time now, some are new builders of sterlings and have not been at it long but look to do great work. I have never heard people complain or swet the small stuff like a sharp edge on a cocking handle that can be repaired without the aid of rocket science, and believe me, if it is registered "anything", it is worth the repair.
As to the complaint of the sear notch in the tube not being correctly located and in need of relocation, that is a serious complaint and I can't imagine it not passing the test fireing and corrected, but then Andrewski had found out the hard way as well.
Thanks again;)

[Subgunner326]

I thought about using Don but after following his nasty business practices on Subguns I decided not to give him any of my business.

Anyone who would make a phony claim about a customer with the ATF is a dick and someone that should be avoided like the plague

[John C]

I paid the going full price (then) of $4,250 for the Quinnell Sterling. I expected, in return, a quality built firearm from a guy with a good reputation. After all, that great Sterling article in SAR a few years ago said Don built quality Sterling's! I don't consider hit & miss paint a quality build. Or hit & miss crinkle finish. Or paint that rubs off with a rag. Or a self-collapsing stock. Or a poorly fit and welded charging handle. Or a jam-o-matic action from a mislocated sear opening. This isn't small stuff or complaints. And rocket science has nothing to do with it. Do you finish installing the ball joints on your new car? Do you even take delivery of it?

If I wanted an effin' handyman special I wouldn't have paid the full ride. Nor was I going to wait 90 days to receive it then F5 it immediately to Quinnell for repairs. Nor do I want to have to fix, or paint, or weld, or f*** with a brand new gun (and it is essentially brand new).

There you have it: my story of the Quinnell Sterling I bought and rejected. Your mileage may vary.

End of rant. See that wasn't so bad :)

Now, what is it that "...Andrewski had found out the hard way as well"?

John C.

[motorgun]

Hopefully, I will receive the MK5 tomorrow and it will be a "hit" rather than a "miss". The seller seems to be a real gentleman and he has given his word that it runs flawless. Will report soon............

[John C]

We want lots of pictures and range reports. You have your orders, so go out and shoot the hell out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!

John C.

[Leroy]

Easy there John C., don't blow a gasket! After all, the guy who doesn't even have a endcap that will stay on due to a pin somewhere in the gravel of his shooting area isn't popping off about how an Andrewski gun is coming apart at the range after he paid the "full ride", you certaimly would be.
Instead, the guy called Andrewski and he is sending him a pin so he won't be tempted to use duck tape.
I now have an Andrewski inbound as of today, just had to get one after all the talk. It is a new build and I can inspect the difference myself.
The dealer was king enough to give me the deal we had discussed from when he had first ordered five of them, so I couldn't refuse.
I just have never experianced a single person who had a trouble plauged sterling from Don, and every single one we have had have had no problems at all and run flawlessly. I also have another coming from a C-2 who has made a few(don't know the count), but it is made from a virgin sten tube by Wilson.
I will post the findings from the Andrewski, but I figure there won't or can't be much of a difference due to it being another tube gun made from used and hacked parts kits.
It doesn't make much sense, or raises my brow when you say how DLO had a sterling from Don Q, then has you inspect it to find all of the "defects", weren't you told of the defects? If I was, I certainly would not have paid the price to then rufuse. If you were not told of the "defects", that doesn't say much for DLO.
I can post pic's of the Andreski when I receive it to show any differences I find, better yet, I can get him to take some close ups of the endcap and the inside welds to see how good they are.
Keep a cool stool fool, if there is a major diff, I am man enough to admit to it.
Didn't mean to lite you up John C.

[L34A1]

Originally posted by Leroy
I certainly would not have paid the price to then rufuse. If you were not told of the "defects", that doesn't say much for DLO.
[/B]

Douglas Ofinger refused to sell me a tube because I wanted to come out and see the configuration of the cut slots of his tubes many moons ago. This is when the tubes first came to the market. His wife stated that I "offended him" and refused the sale. So, I bought a real Mk4 predealer sample from someone else. Didn't DLO have to give up his license? (after he found those tubes?)

[John C]

Hey Leroy, I wasn't blowing a gasket about the condition of the Sterling (that's why the :) at the end of the rant). I was, however, replying to your comment about rocket science and a buyer fixing a new gun.

FYI 1: I recall the end cap didn't lock the stock in place because the pin on the inside of the release lever was too far from the matching notches in the end cap. Probably a fitting error.

FYI 2: Don't YOU tell ME what I would be bitching about. You presume you know me from an internet conversation. You don't.

FYI 3: What are you inferring "raises your brow"? If you want to call me a liar about the condition of the Sterling, do it. Doug didn't have me "inspect" the Sterling, I had the frequent flier miles and it was my chance to check it out and visit a Legend's shop.

FYI 4: Doug was genuinely surprised at the defects. Moreso at finding out about the same sear problem on HIS shop gun. IMO, he thought both guns were perfect. In fact, we tore both guns down in his shop to find out the problem was with the sear opening. I hope you weren't inferring one of the Good Guys in C3 was not being honest. I sure wasn't!

There is nothing to be a "cool stool fool" about (whatever that means). Motorgun asked. I replied. Everybody, including Don Quinnell and John Andrewski, has a bad day at the bench. I personally had a bad Quinnell and have a perfect Andrewski. That's all. No more, no less. Just real life, non-dealer input.

John C.