mmm... slowfire conversion... D'OH!

[shooter2]

Hey all.

Spent the better part of the evening at my gunsmith's place, doing the slowfire conversion on my M-11/9. I arrived with instructions, diagrams & measurements in-hand...

He tapped a brand-new RPB bolt, cut the op rod to length, clipped the stock recoil spring so it was just enough to keep the rear plate tensioned, measured & drilled the rear receiver wall, noted where the op rod was binding and relieved the holes, reassembled everything and hand-cycled with dummy rounds.

Wouldn't eject. The round would extract OK, but the ejector rod wasn't hitting the case right to get it out of the gun. Maybe the op rod is too long? Remove the 1/4" extra we had built in, and re-test. No joy.

Maybe the op rod is binding, causing the retainer plate to twist and thereby misaligning the ejector rod? Relieve op rod hole in retainer plate even more, grind down retainer plate so that even if it twists, it won't interfere with bolt travel. Re-test. No dice. F*CK!

Install working stock bolt; cycles and ejects fine. Compare ejector position in stock bolt to slowfire bolt; ejector in slow-fire bolt sits much farther out from bolt wall. We didn't modify this part at all, so perhaps the ejector rod opening in the bolt is out of position? Test by returning slowfire bolt to stock condition, using guts from known-good bolt; still FTEj - D'OH! But this means the bolt itself is the culprit! Confirm by tapping rear of known-good stock bolt and installing slowfire guts. Cycles and ejects fine! Woo-hoo!

I was pissed beyond words that RPB had sent us a bum part, that we'd never thought to test it in its stock form to verify that it worked before we started the conversion, and that we'd wasted an evening tinkering with it and "correcting" things that might never have been a problem to begin with... But at the same time, I was overjoyed that we finally had a working gun at the end of the night. Gunsmith is going to call RPB tomorrow and see about sending the bolt back for an exchange or refund.

Test-fire of the slowfire conversion will come this weekend. It's using the AAC CSMKII mechanical buffer in a Rock River 6-position stock. Autowerkes 10" Open Class upper.

Stay Tuned!

[CC_Ryder]

I just did a similar job on my m11. I started out with the original bolt but I wasn't happy with how deep we were able to tap it. Ran ok tho.
Then I got an RPB bolt, easy drill and tap, really deep, about 3/4" of threads. I used a 1/4" bolt long enough for the m16 buffer to bottom out about 1/4" short of extreme travel of bolt.
I did numerous trials with the original bolt and with the new bolt. No operational problems at all with any configuration. Long op rod, short op rod, no reliability problems with the old bolt or the new RPB bolt..
Shortened the stock recoil spring to just hold plate in place.
I am using a solid M16 stock, long standard buffer, (5.17 oz.) short buffer spring from collapsible stock. The longer buffer spring worked ok but was too fast. Short spring slowed it down some more.
Finally got it slow enought for the CE6000 timer to count the shots; bad news is it still runs about 1100 rpm. God only knows what it was running before.
We are making a heavier buffer out of 1" iron bar. I expect it to weigh over 8 oz. May make one even heavier.
Problem is that weight is getting to be considerable. Am running a Stoneycreek 10" upper (probably made by MPA) with forward grip & compensator. Getting pretty heavy; easier to hold onto tho.
What does your buffer weigh? Please post back with your range results.

[shooter2]

Tested the slowfire conversion this weekend. We were pressed for time (doing it during breaks in a tactical pistol class), so only fired about 200 rounds. Ran flawlessly.

The entire character of the gun has changed; it's now smooth and completely controllable, with much less recoil than before (a credit to the Smith comp, and to the conversion). A good trigger finger can do doubles easily. With a good stance, full-mag dumps don't even begin to wander off-target. In short, I'm delighted. Need to get some more trigger time to verify it's where I want it, RoF-wise. Feels like somewhere between 700 and 800, but I'd like to time it and see for sure. I also want to pull the bolt after another few hundred rounds, and see how it and the sear are holding up.

The AAC buffer I'm using only weighs ~5.5oz, but it's a mechanical rate-reducing design. If you go with a traditional buffer configuration, you'll need it to be somewhere between 8-12 ounces to get sufficient reduction.

[Master Shake]

I did a TASK style slow fire conversion to my M11/9 last year and it really turned the little beast into a fun gun to shoot. I thought of using the AAC buffer but went with a heavy Tungsten CAR buffer from Fulton Armory instead. I also use a full length recoil spring housed in a ACE LTD. shorty skeleton AR-15 stock. I would probably say the ROF is somewhere around 700rpm.

[CC_Ryder]

My buddy built me a steel buffer this weekend, or finished this weekend. With the old recoil spring completely removed and using a M16 spring for a collapsible stock in a full length M16 stock I am getting about 740 rpm. Op rod extends about 1.2 " into the stock. Buffer is hitting the bottom; plastic tip turning black.
Total elapsed time on my IDPA timer minus the time from the buzzer til the first shot. Doing 10 shot strings. If I add back in the time elapsed from one shot til the next shot I get about 675 or so. The timer records time from 1st shot til last shot. So a one shot time would be the time from ignition to the next shot.
Did I make any sense there?
Buffer weighs 11.2 oz complete with weights inside.

[UZI SBR AWC]

Mine is done using the RPB bolt, full size stock and rifle buffer that has a brass dowel inside (7.04oz). The bolt weighs same as std M16-9mm bolt, and when firing, it seems to fire similar rate as M16, just smoother.

Need to get a timer and find what actual ROF is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/capttoyota/M11RPBop-rod1.jpg


Upper sitting on my semi for test firing-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/capttoyota/M11suppressed.jpg

[xm15e2s]

you guys do know that there are great advances made in slowfire conversions that dont require screwing with your lower by drilling it?
MaX-11.com makes a slowfire conversion. why put a hole in a $3000 m11 lower when a upper is all that is needed?

[shooter2]

xm15e2s:

1) Putting a hole in the lower is no big deal unless you plan on selling the gun. Heck, being set up for the slowfire conversion might even increase the value!

2) The Lage MAX-11 slowfire upper isn't in production yet.

3) Some of us want to be able to run slow with any upper, not just one.

4) I already had a couple uppers, and didn't feel like shelling out $500+ for another so I could run slow. The conversion, performed by a gunsmith friend of mine, was FREE! :D

Mr. Lage turns out some excellent products, and his forthcoming slowfire upper will certainly fill a market niche, but it's not for everyone.

Personally, I'm waiting with baited breath for his .22 kit. :cool

[Master Shake]

One must also realize that these guns were not always $3000. When I did mine you could still buy them for around $1100 with a ton of accessories. My attitude at the time was if I did not like it I could always get another one .Times have certainly changed. Doing such a modification on a gun like an M11/9 is not a earth shattering alteration. The hole can be rewelded and made to look as though nothing was ever done. Besides, the M11/9 is not really a collector's piece. Now the Powder Springs MAC 10 is another thing.

[jwp]

i spent the$ to get weaver to do a m10/45 swd task conversion, real fun gun for subgun matches and the 50 rd greasers make it easy to shoot a lot of targets between reloads