CFW Bolt Just Sold on GB for $2900

[Ericoak]

With respect to manufacturing, some of you may recall that a couple years ago a third party (an individual or company in Texas?) expressed interest in the independent manufacture of tungsten alloy bolts, but that apparently went nowhere. I suspect that the market is simply too small, the machine set up time too long, and tooling wear too extensive to make it worth doing.
MHO, YMMV, etc.

Sounds like anyone desperate better grab one off GB while they

 

[CoffeeFreak]

CoffeeFreak,

Do you have any sense of how durable the CFW bolts are? It's my impression that the allow is not as strong/hard as steel. With how expensive they have gotten, I'm a little concerned over whether the fixed firing pin may wear or break over time, and if so, whether it could be repaired or not.

The tungsten steel alloy is pretty tough but I designed the Gen-2 bolt with a removable firing pin for a couple reasons, one being concern for the fixed firing pin lifespan over the years. I have repaired worn out STEN and UZI bolt fixed firing pins. It was Tom's decision to go with the fixed firing pin on the A1 bolt to save money. The choice to discontinue the Gen-2 bolt and have just the A1 bolt was to keep the numbers high enough to meet the manufacturers minimum and save money using less tungsten. If it was up to me and I was buying a CF-W bolt for an M-11/9 I would prefer the Gen-2. You don't have that choice with a baby mac but I do think a good machinist could probably repair-replace an A-1 firing pin.

 

[Haris1]

Here is one at $3900 !!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1037042600

If they go to 10K i will sell mine !!

 

[JackBlundell]

Do you have any sense of how durable the CFW bolts are? It's my impression that the alloy is not as strong/hard as steel. With how expensive they have gotten, I'm a little concerned over whether the fixed firing pin may wear or break over time, and if so, whether it could be repaired or not.

I have some useful data regarding CFW bolt's durability. I received my Gen 2 bolt (no engraving, replaceable firing pin) in May 2016. I installed an ILWT stainless steel firing pin in the bolt. From 5/29/16 through 2/22/24, I fired 19,280 rounds through my gun using this bolt. The ammo was almost exclusively S&B 115 gr FMJ.

So far, I can't detect any wear on the bolt beyond surface abrasions. The sear, firing pin, ejector rod, and recoil spring guide rod are all sound. I installed a new recoil spring in 2020 to fiddle with the rate of fire. Sam at Practical Solutions did some minor work on my bolt that year to get it to run right in my Gray Ghost Upper. The sear notch, which is where I expected to see the most wear, is in really good shape.

I realize this doesn't directly address your concern about the fixed firing pin in the CFW A bolt, but if overall wear over time on other parts of the bolt is any indiction, I think the CFW A bolt will last a good long time.

 

[StenAtopia]

Here is one at $3900 !!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1037042600

If they go to 10K i will sell mine !!

Guess you haven’t been reading this entire thread!

 

[KickStand]

I’d suggest getting ahold of TheColtCollector in regards to the CFW or CFW-A bolt’s durability.
If I recall correctly, I had some concern about the built in firing pin in the A bolt over the NON A bolt and he said he’s got 10’s of thousands of rounds without issue.
As CoffeeFreak mentioned, he played a big part in the testing of the bolts.


I shot both of his bolts with the aforementioned round counts and they both still worked like new.

 

[TheColtCollector]

I took the original CFW bolt to Devgru in Virginia Beach at every range qualification for my guys. Between that and my own shooting we had over 100k rounds of through it this bolt. Once I hit the 100k mark which took about a year I sent my bolt to Tom so he could document the wear. We couldn’t detect any. Now here are some things I did wear out.

To give you an idea of the sturdiness of this bolt I literally blew up my own RR with an OOB high primer reload, it split the barrel like a banana. Smushed the FCG and bent out the right side of the reciever about an inch breaking the welds on the feed ramp. The bolt was totally fine. I ended pressing my lower back together with a shop press, rewelding, and buying a whole new FCG from lage.

A barrel - after about 70k rounds between shooting military plus P ammo and my own crappy lead ammo, I had so much throat erosion that I couldn’t ignite ammo. Also the lead bullets left behind trace amounts of hard impurities in the barrel that gave micro scratches after the FMJ rounds shot them out which further wore out the barrel. Small price to pay to shoot cheap ammo.

Firing pin - those cheap metal firing pins wore after about 10-15k rounds. I ended hardening and quenching them which gave them a bit more life. Ultimately I made my own out of billet steel.

Recoil springs - they were good for about 20k rounds

Tom changed out my extractor spring at 100k when I sent it to him as a courtesy but I don’t think it needed it.

Now I kept firing my CFW bolt after reaching 100k round mark but I stopped trying to keep a round count.

Admittedly my favorite bolt was the gen 2 A bolt in the full size m11/9. I doubt anyone could shoot it enough to wear it out.

In conclusion, I think most of you will wear out RR before you could wear an original CFW since firing pin is replaceable. Obviously you are gonna wear out a lot of other parts. The milled in firing pins would have a marginally smaller life span since I suppose that firing pin “could wear out” but I seriously doubt it could happen in your lifetime.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

I’d suggest getting ahold of TheColtCollector in regards to the CFW or CFW-A bolt’s durability.
If I recall correctly, I had some concern about the built in firing pin in the A bolt over the NON A bolt and he said he’s got 10’s of thousands of rounds without issue.
As CoffeeFreak mentioned, he played a big part in the testing of the bolts.


I shot both of his bolts with the aforementioned round counts and they both still worked like new.

Beau sold his Macs and bolts. Your right though, he is a torture tester lol. I have had to repair broken welds on his Grey Ghost uppers twice, and his Gen-1 CFW bolt, twice. The man knows how to blow up a gun.

If you watch this video you can see his rail flopping around You can also catch my mug in some of the shots.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

I took the original CFW bolt to Devgru in Virginia Beach at every range qualification for my guys. Between that and my own shooting we had over 100k rounds of through it this bolt. Once I hit the 100k mark which took about a year I sent my bolt to Tom so he could document the wear. We couldn’t detect any. Now here are some things I did wear out.

To give you an idea of the sturdiness of this bolt I literally blew up my own RR with an OOB high primer reload, it split the barrel like a banana. Smushed the FCG and bent out the right side of the reciever about an inch breaking the welds on the feed ramp. The bolt was totally fine. I ended pressing my lower back together with a shop press, rewelding, and buying a whole new FCG from lage.

A barrel - after about 70k rounds between shooting military plus P ammo and my own crappy lead ammo, I had so much throat erosion that I couldn’t ignite ammo. Also the lead bullets left behind trace amounts of hard impurities in the barrel that gave micro scratches after the FMJ rounds shot them out which further wore out the barrel. Small price to pay to shoot cheap ammo.

Firing pin - those cheap metal firing pins wore after about 10-15k rounds. I ended hardening and quenching them which gave them a bit more life. Ultimately I made my own out of billet steel.

Recoil springs - they were good for about 20k rounds

Tom changed out my extractor spring at 100k when I sent it to him as a courtesy but I don’t think it needed it.

Now I kept firing my CFW bolt after reaching 100k round mark but I stopped trying to keep a round count.

Admittedly my favorite bolt was the gen 2 A bolt in the full size m11/9. I doubt anyone could shoot it enough to wear it out.

In conclusion, I think most of you will wear out RR before you could wear an original CFW since firing pin is replaceable. Obviously you are gonna wear out a lot of other parts. The milled in firing pins would have a marginally smaller life span since I suppose that firing pin “could wear out” but I seriously doubt it could happen in your lifetime.

You responded while I was searching for that video

 

[TheColtCollector]

Forgot to say in my post. I had 50k rounds each through gen 1 and gen 2 A bolts between both m11a1 and m11/9 all in 9mm. Only ever changed recoil springs. Since I was changing host guns I and constantly swapping stuff I didn’t keep track of spring replacements. I didn’t notice any wear to firing pin.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Bitten by a bat.

I own a pest control business. You wouldn’t believe how dangerous rodents and rabies can be. I had to get a series of rabies shots a few months back after an incident with a rodent biting my hand. It is easily preventable with the vaccinations, but not everybody catches it, and if you don’t catch it, there is NO cure and you will die a very very uncomfortable death.

Anyway, back to CFW bolts.

 

[SecondAmend]

So, back to tungsten bolts. A few months ago there was a thread wherein a tungsten ("A"?) bolt was pictured wherein the bolt featured a sear notch face with what appeared to be peening. IIRC, the bolt had possibly been improperly installed in a Lage upper of some type. I suspect that the sear in the lower was hardened, and that the sear notch face of the tungsten bolt was not hardened as deeply and/or to the degree as was the sear.
MHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[KickStand]

So, back to tungsten bolts. A few months ago there was a thread wherein a tungsten ("A"?) bolt was pictured wherein the bolt featured a sear notch face with what appeared to be peening. IIRC, the bolt had possibly been improperly installed in a Lage upper of some type. I suspect that the sear in the lower was hardened, and that the sear notch face of the tungsten bolt was not hardened as deeply and/or to the degree as was the sear.
MHO, YMMV, etc.

If I recall correctly, they were using the A bolt in a Lage upper. I don’t think Lage recommends using the A bolt in that specific upper / configuration. I think someone made an adapter for the Lage upper with and a CFW-A bolt (it was called the Alamo adapter or something like that). Regardless, I’m fairly certain Lage has advised against that specific setup for awhile now.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

So, back to tungsten bolts. A few months ago there was a thread wherein a tungsten ("A"?) bolt was pictured wherein the bolt featured a sear notch face with what appeared to be peening. IIRC, the bolt had possibly been improperly installed in a Lage upper of some type. I suspect that the sear in the lower was hardened, and that the sear notch face of the tungsten bolt was not hardened as deeply and/or to the degree as was the sear.
MHO, YMMV, etc.

It’s because they were using the A bolt in a LAGE upper, but the LAGE uses a different sear surface on the bolt or something like that, so it is beating the hell out of the bolts. IIRC Rich Lage chimed in on that one and advised NOT to use the CFW bolt in his uppers because of the different sear position (it may have been a different reason but it was something like this)

 

[CoffeeFreak]

It’s because they were using the A bolt in a LAGE upper, but the LAGE uses a different sear surface on the bolt or something like that, so it is beating the hell out of the bolts. IIRC Rich Lage chimed in on that one and advised NOT to use the CFW bolt in his uppers because of the different sear position (it may have been a different reason but it was something like this)

It was the Lage Max 31 series. It uses a proprietary sear, sear angle and bolt that isn't compatible with the OEM M-11/9 sear notch the the CF-W bolt uses. Richard said you can ruin your bolt and have a dangerous run-away scenario.

 

[woodenword]

It was the Lage Max 31 series. It uses a proprietary sear, sear angle and bolt that isn't compatible with the OEM M-11/9 sear notch the the CF-W bolt uses. Richard said you can ruin your bolt and have a dangerous run-away scenario.

i have had 2 of the Max-31 uppers. It doesn’t use a proprietary sear. The sear notch on the bolt is in a different location, so yes, the bolt is different.

 

[TheColtCollector]

The sear notch is in a different location but the same angle. Mechanically, I don’t understand while properly tuned it would be a problem

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

It was the Lage Max 31 series. It uses a proprietary sear, sear angle and bolt that isn't compatible with the OEM M-11/9 sear notch the the CF-W bolt uses. Richard said you can ruin your bolt and have a dangerous run-away scenario.

Yes, this is the one. I think it’s just because the bolt in the LAGE has a different location for the sear notch. The actual sear itself in the lower receiver is the same, with the same angle, it just catches a different location on the LAGE bolt and it’s not meant to catch on the traditional M11 sear surface, I think it causes too much stress on the bolt, maybe because of the extra bolt travel and the added inertia behind it, whatever the reason it apparently beats the hell out of the sear surface after a while which will indeed cause the bolt to eventually fail to lock open and run away.

 

[Gaujo]

Once we get the slow fire bolts going hopefully soon. I would dump the tungsten bolts for what ever you can get out of them and buy a couple versions of ours. M11, and Mac 10.

That's a little like saying I'm inventing a cheap fission reactor next week so sell all you cars this week.

 

[Gaujo]

P

There is more to it then the mass striking the rear of the receiver. There is also mass and velocity the bolt cycles and head spaces the case mouth and hits the trunion milliseconds before detonation. The full size bolt, while it had more mass has a much weaker spring if tuned correctly and travels much slower, impacting the detonating round and impacting the trunion much softer then the A1 bolt. Fire each bolt on an empty chaimber and you will see it. Ericoak is right. The full size bolt makes for less movement and is a little more accurate shooting with a lower ROF. The A1 bolt was slightly more forgiving of a tighter out of speck receivers because the lighter mass overcame the friction easier. Later second gen bolts and A1 bolts had an improved extractor angle we developed from results of Strobro32s and my testing of the prototype A1 bolt to make it reliable with 380 and smaller spec ejection windows. We were trying to make the 380 bolt and I told Tom, I think this could shoot 9MM in the baby mac reliably. He didn't believe me. I opened the bolt up a little for 9MM, and it ran 9MM better then 380 lol. I still have that bolt and all the other prototypes including a next gen A1 prototype made out of a different tungsten alloy. It's GOLDEN! Made out of a bronze tungsten alloy. I will have to dig them out and post pictures.

Puhleaze post pictures! I would buy a gold one just because. Does the full size hit softer because it's using a floating firing pin?