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Thread: Kimmel AP-9 (full size)

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    Registered User Mike85220's Avatar
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    Kimmel AP-9 (full size)

    I have to touch base on this particular pistol because so many people over time have asked about it. They always like to know how it compares to a TEC-9, and since I have owned a few of each I will touch base on that.

    The Kimmel AP-9 is another low cost assault pistol that has light weight in mind. They could have gone all metal, but they decided the weight saving factor of high impact plastic was the way to go, like Interdynamics and Intratec have done.

    The AP-9 (full size) is smaller than the TEC-9 (full size). It has the same cheap feel to it. When you take the AP-9 apart, it has the same striker type design as the TEC-9. It is essentially A.A.Arms attempt at refining the TEC-9.

    Accuracy is better with the AP-9 than the TEC-9, and I will have to say that this is because Intratec has cheap barrels on their guns. The rifling on a TEC-9 is barely adequate to make the 9mm round stabilize. My mini-TEC-9 keyholed rounds at 20 feet, and the gun was new.

    What kind of accuracy are we talking about here? It will shoot the same groups as a SIG, HK, Glock in 9mm. It is very accurate, and getting it to group is easy to do. The trigger is slightly better than the TEC-9. It has a little less travel but has the same pound pull. I dont have a way to measure the pounds of pull. At about 20 feet the gun will shoot 1 and a half inch groupings. This gun does not give you these groups, you have to take your time and give a little effort. A SIG makes groups come to you much easier, if you know what I mean.

    Is it reliable??? I would have to say it was more reliable than the TEC-9 but less reliable than the M-11/9 semi. In other words, a TEC-9 jams every 2nd magazine with one empty stuck in the gun with the bolt resting on it. The AP-9 would do this every 5th magazine. My M-11/9 in semi has not jammed yet and I have a few thousand through it so far.

    How does it hold up??? I will tell you right now, the AP-9 does not have a good track record. I have seen the guns with split receivers many times on the magazine well. It must be it's Achilles heel... My first AP-9 about took my thumb off. How? My friend was done shooting it and put it on the shooting table. I picked it up and pulled the bolt back. The gun went off as I pulled the bolt back!!! There is a POS piece of clear plastic that is in the trigger assembly that holds the sear pin/ spring. It broke while firing it and it held the striker sideways so that the trigger wouldnt respond and it was a hair away from firing. My friend thought he shot it till it emptied. It had a round waiting and the bolt handle went through my hand between my thumb and index finger. I had to tie my index and thumb so it wouldnt move for several days. I should have gotten stitches, it was bad.

    What caused it??? I use Gunscrubber, and that POS plastic was not Gunscrubber friendly. It made it crack in the same way Gunscrubber does to a Ruger 10/22 Eagle magazine. When I bought another years later, I never used anything but oil to clean the lower with Q-tips.

    The second one never had any problems and was a great pistol.

    I was told that anything above 115 grain bullets non +P will greatly shorten the life of this gun. This also applies to the TEC-9 as the lower will break if you use higher grain and heavier loads through it. You can shoot heavier rounds, but you will damage it and that damage will show up at the worst time.

    Parts are too hard to get for this gun. If you find a firing pin, you will pay $50+ for one. If anything else breaks, good luck. Gunsmiths can make parts, but they are pricey and usually need adjustment which adds to the cost.

    If A.A.Arms were still in business, I would get another. But since they are not, I do not endorse the AP-9. It is a fun gun for around $350, but if it breaks you have a $350 paper-weight. The TEC-9 on the other hand still has parts being made by www.sksparts.com and are supposedly better than the original parts. They are affordable too...

  2. #2
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    I have had one for several year , Its a Stainless AA Arms. However, parts are NOT interchangable with a TEC-9. The bad news for me is my extractor disappered and now it uses the head of a nail as the "claws".( but it works ).

    Since our State has outlawed this Gun, It is now grandfather to me for life, with no transfer. I have tried to look for a cheap second upper for this gun to mess around with (No luck yet). Maybe a nice 22 kit , if I ever get a chance to build a tube gun.

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    Registered User dantheman's Avatar
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    I have an Intratec TEC-9, one of the newer ones, that I inhereted a few years back. I haven't fired it, due to hearing too many stories of them breaking and blowing up in people's faces. Plus, it feels a little on the cheap-side. The rear sight is welded way too far to the left side of the tube, which indicates poor workmanship. I've thought about putting a box of ammo through it, just to say I did, but never get around to it.

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    Registered User Mike85220's Avatar
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    The only problem I ever had with the TEC-9 is:
    Jams from aftermarket magazines.
    Broken firing pins (they break every 5000 rds).

    They hold up well, I never have had a receiver crack or the gun blow up. Just use Winchester white box 115 grain 9mms, and it will last you more rounds than you can go through, with the exception of the firing pins.

    Always make sure that you use factory TEC mags or Scherer brand.

  5. #5
    Registered User dantheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike85220
    The only problem I ever had with the TEC-9 is:
    Jams from aftermarket magazines.
    Broken firing pins (they break every 5000 rds).

    They hold up well, I never have had a receiver crack or the gun blow up. Just use Winchester white box 115 grain 9mms, and it will last you more rounds than you can go through, with the exception of the firing pins.

    Always make sure that you use factory TEC mags or Scherer brand.
    All I have for mine is 50rd & 36rd aftermarkets, I think. Where do you get factory mags at? How much are they?

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    Registered User Deadline222's Avatar
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    That reminds me, I have an AP-9. In mine the plastic parts you spoke of are also broken. Never had a problem firing it. One of the first "pre-ban" guns I found/baught, it came with the "flash supressor" and or course I just had to put a lazer on it.
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    I guess you can add me to the list... I have an AP-9. Bought it a long time ago... It wasn't a threaded barrel but it had a ring around the barrel... I think after I bought it, I ran a bunch of rounds thru it and put it away... I think I have several larger mags for it... At least it looked neat.

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    Registered User frtyfivsevnty's Avatar
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    I have a AP9.I bought it NIB with 3 factory hi-caps for $300 a few months ago.It is pretty accurate.I don't really shoot it but it looks cool next to my Uzi pistol!Now if I could get my buddy to give me a price on his Spectre 9mm I'd be all set.

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    Those are kinda cool looking. Wish they made that type of pistol, but with more quality. I like the look of the magwell in front of the triggerguard. Not as userfriendly as the fist to fist uzi magwell, but cool looking though.

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    Senior Member meshmdz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantheman
    I have an Intratec TEC-9, one of the newer ones, that I inhereted a few years back. I haven't fired it, due to hearing too many stories of them breaking and blowing up in people's faces. Plus, it feels a little on the cheap-side. The rear sight is welded way too far to the left side of the tube, which indicates poor workmanship. I've thought about putting a box of ammo through it, just to say I did, but never get around to it.


    sell it to me! i am wanting to get a TEC-9

  11. #11
    Registered User Iambny's Avatar
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    nice pic, the modern stuff is nice, and the uzi and stuff, but i really love those old greasy war scared ww1 and ww2 bolts...do i see a svt40?

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    Senior Member meshmdz's Avatar
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    i have a old Russian M44 Mosin Nagant that shoots the 7.62x54r round and it is an amazing old military rifle.. no telling how many nazis were killed with it before it was phased out and sent to the USA... but man, you talk about something that will knock your dick in the dirt.... the M44 will!

  13. #13
    Registered User Iambny's Avatar
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    i think some of the best weapons were the old rifles many people have forgot about.
    Im having a buying spree here picking up unisued nagants in mint condition, for $100, and old rebarreled enfields no1 mk3's. and a few jungel carbines have been popping up.
    the m44 is a nasty bitch of a gun, i really doubt anything today is as though as those guns, and the russians had so little to work with and did a excellent job.

  14. #14
    Registered User Deadline222's Avatar
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    These days, if it is not a piece of history I have a hard time purchasing it. Guns without a story, a history, a life are just plain boring.

    And yes, that is a Tula, no import mark, original chrome bolt 1941 SVT.....that I payed $160 for, because the owner was more than confident it was an SKS.

  15. #15
    Senior Member meshmdz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iambny
    i think some of the best weapons were the old rifles many people have forgot about.
    Im having a buying spree here picking up unisued nagants in mint condition, for $100, and old rebarreled enfields no1 mk3's. and a few jungel carbines have been popping up.
    the m44 is a nasty bitch of a gun, i really doubt anything today is as though as those guns, and the russians had so little to work with and did a excellent job.

    iambny you are right.. there are so many good older guns that you can get for about 100 bucks and that are as reliable as any other gun... the M44 is one of them... if you dont shoot corrosive ammo, the thing never has to be cleaned. if you shoot the corrosive ammo and clean it afterwards as i always do, the gun will still last forever

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    I've heard tale of the original TEC being open bolt, KG-9 I think? How does it compare in reliability to the closed bolt TEC/AP-9's, have the same history of cracked frames? The Scherer mags I have seen for both models, they have magwell stops on the sides of them, look like they could be made to fit a MAC-10/9mm too, am I right?

  17. #17
    Registered User Mike85220's Avatar
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    The Interdynamics open bolt KG-9 has the same problems as the closed bolt KG-9 when it comes to the receiver cracking.

    The closed bolt TEC-9 had been upgraded with a rear receiver cap that is threaded onto the receiver tube, it helps reduce the direct impact problem of the bolt. The KG-9 has only a thin black buffer to cushion the bolt. The TEC-9 has a buffer and the receiver cap. This makes the recoil more distributed onto the frame.

    All TEC-9 type guns will eventually have their plastic lower crack. Using only 115 grain ammo helps prevent premature cracking.

    The closed bolt gun 'is' much more reliable. It only has a bolt, a spring and a sear rather than the closed bolt having an extra spring and striker assembly which holds onto a firing pin. The closed bolt version has too much little things that can go wrong.

  18. #18
    Senior Member meshmdz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike85220
    The only problem I ever had with the TEC-9 is:
    Jams from aftermarket magazines.
    Broken firing pins (they break every 5000 rds).

    They hold up well, I never have had a receiver crack or the gun blow up. Just use Winchester white box 115 grain 9mms, and it will last you more rounds than you can go through, with the exception of the firing pins.

    Always make sure that you use factory TEC mags or Scherer brand.

    the TEC-9 will last longer with this ammo? am i reading your post correctly?

  19. #19
    Registered User Mike85220's Avatar
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    I hear a lot of people that complain that the TEC-9 receivers are weak. Many say that they have seen or heard of people with this happen to them. Only two people I can confirm with cracked receivers said it was done when they used 124 grain bullets. I can imagine +P or +P+ ruining one with just one magazine.

    I can only say that the TEC-9 is like a Geo Metro. For example, it will run a long time on 87 octane fuel pretty reliably with maintainance, but if you try running NOS at any level, its longevity is out the window. The TEC-9's Achille's heel is the lower. The upper is very strong.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by suka5168
    I have had one for several year , Its a Stainless AA Arms. However, parts are NOT interchangable with a TEC-9. The bad news for me is my extractor disappered and now it uses the head of a nail as the "claws".( but it works ).

    Since our State has outlawed this Gun, It is now grandfather to me for life, with no transfer. I have tried to look for a cheap second upper for this gun to mess around with (No luck yet). Maybe a nice 22 kit , if I ever get a chance to build a tube gun.
    If you're still interested in a complete second upper for this, there's one that appears to be stainless steel at my gunsmith's shop with a price tag of $85 on it. It may not be there for long as I've noticed it being examined by someone every time I'm there to buy primers or powder. I remembered that it had a relatively low serial number.

    Since my workload has gotten quite heavy here lately, I don't have as much time to cruise around UziTalk these days, so sending me a regular e-mail would be the quickest way to contact me.

    My e-mail address is allendavis58@sbcglobal.net.

    Hope this helps.

    Allen

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