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Thread: Anyone want an OPEN BOLT KG-9?(tec-9 style)

  1. #1
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    Anyone want an OPEN BOLT KG-9?(tec-9 style)

    I have an ORIGINAL Interdynamic KG-9. Interdynamic AB of sweden was the company to design the "Tec-9 style" of firearms. They made a subsidiary to market the guns in the U.S. and named the company Interdynamic of America, located in Miami. This was in 1981/2. The design was a F/A open bolt style aimed at military/police but only a couple agencies bought the gun. Unwilling to give up on the gun, they marketed a semi-auto version called the KG-9, still an Open bolt, to civilians in America. The gun was very popular (cuz its bad ass) and did well until the BATF deemed the open bolt style "readily convertible to Full Auto". After only 3500 were made in the original Open Bolt style, the company started making them in closed bolt right around the time that the open bolt MACS were banned as well. Only 3500 were made. The company then changed its name to intratec. Whats cool about these guns is that they are what the original design of the "tec-9 subgun" was supposed to be. Just like the open bolt Macs are the real stuff, so are the open bolt tecs. The thing is that the Open bolt KG-9s are even harder to find than the Open bolt macs. A cool fact is that George Kellgren, the designer and owner of Kel-Tec company, helped design the final version of the Interdynamic KG-9. It is a bad ass gun. The tec-9s developed a bad rep becuz of jamming problems, but that was easily contributable to aftermarket and damaged magazines, as well as stupid people trying to use flat nosed rounds. WHen using 115gr fmjs, or round nosed hollow points, my intratec DC-9 runs flawlessly. With wolf 115 gr. fmjs, the 10 rounds I put through the KG-9 ran flawlessly. All parts except for the open bolt and the tiny bit of a longer sear are interchangable with the closed bolt tecs, and parts for the tec are always available on intratecparts.com or e-gunparts.com. Gun comes with two factory mags, original manual, original kolpin soft case, assault sling. Finish is flawless, Bought it from a man in WYOMING who NEVER shot it, he bought it from the original owner,(his friend) in a package deal, so he could get one other gun he wanted. The original owner shot it back in 1983. He shot ALMOST 5 mags through it.(32 rd mags) And he cleaned it after each shooting. ( you can tell because the assembly pin has been removed to clean. Other than the fact its been shot, gun is flawless. I bought it for $1390 total, I will sell it for $1300 since I shot only ten rounds thru it, and these guns keep going up. The last one I saw that was in okay condition sold for $1200 on gunbroker, and another that was in great condition like mine sold for $1600. Search for interdynamic KG-9 and you will see old GB.com listings and old gunsamerica listings. Only about 2 a year surface for purchase.

  2. #2
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    I guess you dont have to worry about breaking firing pins.
    Local 12 Operating Engineer

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    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    Can I ask an obvious question?

    I was told by an FFL/SOT dealer that he wouldn't do the transfer.

    Open bolt semi auto's aren't legal.

    I don't belive everything I'm told so I figured I'd ask.

    The FFL dealer told me that he read somewhere where that weapon was
    refused title 1 designation. meaning that a majority of them where either converted and registered as title 2 weapons (prior to 86) or scrapped and sold as parts.

    Sounds like a neat gun, but lots of hassles?

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    That is not true.
    NO problem with open bolt Semi's.
    Local 12 Operating Engineer

  5. #5
    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    Duke:

    Do you have a reference for this statement?

    Is there information easily accesablle throught the BATF that confirms
    your comments?

    I just CYA when I don't know all the facts.

    TY

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    Any open bolt semi produced AFTER i think July of 1982 are illegal unless registered. All those produced before then were grandfathered and are legal.

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    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of speculation.

    Can anybody secure documentation to prove this?

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    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of speculation.

    Can anybody secure documentation to prove this?


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    Go to this thread, post #11, and the documentation is there. Send off to ATF for your own copy of the ruling.

    http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17671

  10. #10
    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    Thanks,

    I'll stay clear of the KG-9 semi auto OB
    Too much gray area there for my likening.

  11. #11
    Registered User mtdew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrippHammer
    Thanks,

    I'll stay clear of the KG-9 semi auto OB
    Too much gray area there for my likening.
    i'd rather have a open bolt than closed bolt in that model..

    it's not that gray, if it was made before January 19, 1982 it's all good, it's rare, and it's more valuble

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdew
    i'd rather have a open bolt than closed bolt in that model..

    it's not that gray, if it was made before January 19, 1982 it's all good, it's rare, and it's more valuble
    No it is not gray, it is pretty much black and white. The first sentence in the ATF Ruling says it all:

    The KG-9 pistol is a machinegun as defined in the National Firearms Act.

    While the last paragraph of the Ruling suggests there is a "grandfathering", that is no longer true. Appeals court rulings have stated the ATF has no authority to do that. If ATF has determined it is a MG, then it is an MG regardless of when it was made. Unfortunately these things happen; just like a StreetSweeper was once just a shotgun, now it is a DD. And if it is not registered, it is illegal.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    ATF Ruling 82-3

    The KG-9 pistol is a machinegun as defined in the National Firearms Act.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has examined a firearm identified as the KG-9 pistol. The KG-9 is a 9 millimeter caliber, semiautomatic firearm which is blowback operated and which fires from the open bolt position with the bolt incorporating a fixed firing pin. In addition, a component part of the weapon is a disconnector which prevents more than one shot being fired with a single function of the trigger.

    The disconnector is designed in the KG-9 pistol in such a way that a simple modification to it, such as cutting, fitting, or grinding, allows the pistol to operate automatically. Thus, this simple modification to the disconnector together with the configuration of the above design features (blowback operation, firing from the open bolt position, and fixed firing pin) in the KG-9 permits the firearm to shoot automatically, more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The above combination of design features as employed in the KG-9 is normally not found in the typical sporting firearm.

    The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), defines a machinegun to include any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

    The "shoots automatically" definition covers weapons that will function automatically. The "readily restorable" definition defines weapons which previously could shoot automatically but will not in their present condition. The "designed" definition includes those weapons which have not previously functioned as machineguns but possess design features which facilitate full automatic fire by simple modification or elimination of existing component parts.

    Held: The KG-9 pistol is designed to shoot automatically more than one shot, without function of the trigger. Consequently, the KG-9 pistol is a machinegun as defined in section 5845(b) of the Act.

    With respect to the machinegun classification of the KG-9 pistol under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to KG-9 pistols manufactured before January 19, 1982. Accordingly, KG-9 pistols manufactured on or after January 19, 1982, will be subject to all the provisions of the National Firearms Act and 27 C.F.R. Part 179.

    [ATFB 1982-1 18]
    NFA Firearms: In A World Of Compromise, Some Don't.

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    With respect to the machinegun classification of the KG-9 pistol under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to KG-9 pistols manufactured before January 19, 1982.
    So this doesnt mean any thing? Wow....then if they cant grandfather then all the preban chinese stuff is illegal to now...doesnt make any sense...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    No it is not gray, it is pretty much black and white. The first sentence in the ATF Ruling says it all:

    The KG-9 pistol is a machinegun as defined in the National Firearms Act.

    While the last paragraph of the Ruling suggests there is a "grandfathering", that is no longer true. Appeals court rulings have stated the ATF has no authority to do that. If ATF has determined it is a MG, then it is an MG regardless of when it was made. Unfortunately these things happen; just like a StreetSweeper was once just a shotgun, now it is a DD. And if it is not registered, it is illegal.
    if thats the case then how are pre reclassification OB s/a MAC's not considered mg's

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdew
    if thats the case then how are pre reclassification OB s/a MAC's not considered mg's

    They are MGs.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ATF Ruling 82-8

    The SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines are machineguns as defined in the National Firearms Act.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has reexamined firearms identified as SM10 pistols, SM11A1 pistols, and SAC carbines. The SM10 is a 9 millimeter or .45ACP caliber, semiautomatic firearm; the SM11A1 is a .380ACP caliber, semiautomatic firearm; and the SAC carbine is a 9 millimeter or .45ACP caliber, semiautomatic firearm. The weapons are blowback operated, fire from the open bolt position with the bolt incorporating a fixed firing pin, and the barrels of the pistols are threaded to accept a silencer. In addition, component parts of the weapons are a disconnector and a trip which prevent more than one shot being fired with a single function of the trigger.

    The disconnector and trip are designed in the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and in the SAC carbine (firearms) in such a way that a simple modification to them, such as cutting, filing, or grinding, allows the firearms to operate automatically. Thus, this simple modification to the disconnector or trip, together with the configuration of the above design features (blowback operating, firing from the open bolt position, and fixed firing pin) in the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and in the SAC carbine, permits the firearms to shoot automatically, more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The above combination of design features as employed in the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and the SAC carbine are normally not found in typical sporting firearms.

    The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), defines a machinegun to include any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

    The "shoots automatically" definition covers weapons that will function automatically. The "readily restorable" definition defines weapons which previously could shoot automatically but will not in their present condition. The "designed" definition includes those weapons which have not previously functioned as machineguns but possess design features which facilitate full automatic fire by a simple modification or elimination of existing component parts.

    Held: The SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and the SAC carbine are designed to shoot automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. Consequently, the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines are machineguns as defined in Section 5845(b) of the Act.

    With respect to the machinegun classification of the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines manufactured or assembled before June 21, 1982. Accordingly, SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, manufactured or assembled on or after June 21, 1982, will be subject to all the provisions of the National Firearms Act and 27 C.F.R. Part 179.

    [ATFB 1982-2 49]
    NFA Firearms: In A World Of Compromise, Some Don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by linx310
    So this doesnt mean any thing? Wow....then if they cant grandfather then all the preban chinese stuff is illegal to now...doesnt make any sense...
    THose are banned under provisions of Gun Control Act of 1968, not the National Firearms Act of 1934, different laws, different rules.
    NFA Firearms: In A World Of Compromise, Some Don't.

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    Do you have a copy of the appeals court ruiling?

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    There are still a lot of open bolt semi auto macs grandfathered in and no one is being prosecuted for them, nor have they been taken away.

  19. #19
    Registered User mtdew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    They are MGs.
    ok i should have worded my question differently. since they are considered mg's how are they currently being sold as title one guns?

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    IT IS LEGAL. ITS GRANDFATHERED??!!!!

    Okay first of all, they were NOT reclassified as machine guns unless they were made AFTER THE BAN DATE!! JUST LIKE THE OB SEMI AUTO MACS ARE NOT MGS, SO ARE THE INTERDYNAMIC KG-9 OB SEMI AUTOS NOT MGS!!! aNY OBS PRODUCED BEFORE WHATEVER MONTH OF 1982 IS not CLASSIFIED AN MG!!!!! I cant beleive that that one guy actually thinks that its illegal so sternly!!!!!!! IF YOU DONT KNOW, ASK SOMEONE WHO KNOWS!!. WHOEVER THAT WAS THAT BROUGHT UP THE GRANDFATHERED THING IS CORRECT!!!!THE KG-9 IS JUST LIKE THE OBS MACS! Sorry for the confusion, but its frustrating to think that someone thinks Im trying to illegally sell a gun on a website. Go ask a local gun shop TRIPHAMMER AND RENEGADE, you will see that if you fabricated OBS parts OF ANY KIND, and assembled them into ANY KIND OF PISTOL, THAT is against the law, MAKING POST BAN ASSEMBLED OBS'S IS ILLEGAL, BUYING PRE-BAN OPEN BOLTS IS LEGAL!. No more Open Bolts can be produced, but that is why the Original Open Bolt Macs are so expensive, and THAT IS WHY THE ORIGINAL OPEN BOLT KG-9 IS SO EXPENSIVE AS WELL, CUZ ITS EVEN HARDER TO FIND!!! IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL TO BUY, AND PART OF THE REASON WHY ITS SUCH A COOL GUN.
    Last edited by JeffJWC; 10-18-2006 at 01:04 AM.

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