Full Auto M11/9 needs repair

[K2unit]

Greetings, I just picked up this '86 M11/9 and after about 500 rounds the rear receiver weld failed.

Who's had this problem before and more importantly who's the best gunsmith to repair it?

Thanx K2

[Vegas SMG]

From the photo, it looks like you have a stock block in your receiver and a semi auto hammer pin is installed on your "full auto gun".

Semi auto pistol or full auto subgun, Sam at Practical Solutions can repair it.
http://www.practicalpage.com/index.php

[panaceabeachbum]

that looks like the pin that retains the stock plunger, semi hammer pin would be farther forward

[K2unit]

Vegas SMG......Not sure I understand, I've included additional pic for inside details!

Practical Solutions looks like a great start....anybody else to recommend?

I'm still curious if anybody else has had this problem?

I was wondering.....I'm running a 10" barrel and sometimes a Viper Silencer, could additional backpressure be created by either of these barrel configurations over the short standard 4" barrel that might cause the bolt to slam harder/faster than usual to cause this?

K2

[Vegas SMG]

Dooohhh... You are of course correct. I've replaced my stock plunger with a fixed type as supplied with the Lage stocks and Piratical Solutions Mini Uzi type stock.

Still looks like the lower receiver has a block to prevent the addition of a factory stock.

It's not too uncommon when using +P or other "hot" ammo in the M11/9. The added back pressure of a suppressor and a 10" barrel shouldn't have caused the problem, but it happens. You buffer looks fine.

[K2unit]

I can install the FA wire frame collapsible stock; I just removed it for clarity.

I don't think I was using HOT ammo, as I recall it was possibly S&B but probably Fiocchi

My dealer said they have a reputation for this kind of failure......but after 500 rounds??????? I've had two-semi auto M11/9's for many MANY years without this happening!

Is it a common problem to specifically full auto?

Thanx again!
K2

[Vegas SMG]

It happens, but five hundred rounds sounds VERY premature. The 1986 guns can sometimes be spotty. I've owned two and the first one had the bolt sear notch round off in the first 300 rounds or so. This gun was NIB. Check out this thread...

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24817

[9mmsubgun-m11]

Sam at Practical Solutions can fix it.

[panaceabeachbum]

looks like just a slack weld, looking at the left side of the frame it doesnt look like a deep penetrating weld. I dont know how many rounds went thru my mac before I got it but I have put over 5k down the pipe with no problem

[Vegas SMG]

C&S MetalWerkes is another repair option to consider.
http://www.csmetall-werkes.com/

[UZI SBR AWC]

For what it would cost to ship 1 way, find a local chassis builder that is proficient with a TIG.. The weld in the pic is rather thin, and most was ground off.

[terma-nator]

I saw someone recently in Miami have the same problem.
It seems that the 86 guns (some of them) were put together fast, so the quality control, (if any) was very lacking.

I wouldn't bother shipping it to someone. I'd just find a local tig welder to do the repair. It will only take a few minutes. You might need to refinish the welded area.

[K2unit]

Terma-nator,

If you are speaking about the July 1st shoot at Henry's down in Homestead, that was me!

My dealer just emailed me and suggested Don Quinell for repairs, anybody heard of him? Not sure where he's located. I'll call him Friday.

I thought about just taking it to a professional welder, but the rear support plate just in front of the piece that failed is also bent up a little. I'd feel better if who ever worked on it, knew a little about M11's and could also test fire it along with re-parkerize the finish after welding.

Thanx K2

[Mike85220]

+1 on the lots of rounds through my M-11/9 and the back plate still has no sign of seperation.

[terma-nator]

Terma-nator,

If you are speaking about the July 1st shoot at Henry's down in Homestead, that was me!

My dealer just emailed me and suggested Don Quinell for repairs, anybody heard of him? Not sure where he's located. I'll call him Friday.

I thought about just taking it to a professional welder, but the rear support plate just in front of the piece that failed is also bent up a little. I'd feel better if who ever worked on it, knew a little about M11's and could also test fire it along with re-parkerize the finish after welding.

Thanx K2

OK, well, then I told you the same thing when you showed me the gun.
Nothing to worry about. You will be fine about going to a local welder who uses TIG.

Don Quinell is in Fort Meyers I believe (270 miles round trip). Just look up in the telephone book for a local welder.

[CSMWLTD]

Here is the gig with the M11/9 frames.

The factory would bend the tongue, lay the sight plate on, and then run a mig-weld connecting the sides (outer) of the sight plate to the sides (inner) of the frame. The tongue has zero welds (not counting the top welds), and the sight plate & side weld penetration is minimal at best.

We repair at least one every 3 weeks, sometimes every two weeks.

Rate accellerators and stacking buffers does not help the situation.

Your frame does not look that bad, we have repaired some that were 10x worse than yours.

Since you are going to do the repair yourself, I will tell you what we do.
Straighten the sides of the channel.
Straighten the tongue.
Straighten the sight plate.
Tig-weld the tongue to the sides, weld it enough that it would theoretically be strong enough to withstand firing it without the sight plate.
Weld the sight plate to the tongue.
Weld the sight plate to the sides.
Machine the welds down. Or grind it down on a belt sander. Make sure you keep all the pieces square when you are grinding the welds.
Clean the sharp corners off, glass bead and parkerize.

Take your time, do it right, and it will never break again.

Good luck.

C&S Metall-Werkes Ltd

[Vegas SMG]

We always appreciate vendors, manufacturers, etc. posting here and en-lightening our community. Whether or not a board member decides to use your services, it's good information to have and I appreciate your presence here.

Having owned one of you drums, I recognize and appreciate the pride you take in your work. Quality isn't cheap, never has been. In my experience, it pays to spend a little more on the front side and take care of an issue one time, the correct way, and be done with it.

Thanks for your time.

[CSMWLTD]

Hey Vegas, thank you for the welcome and the compliments on our drums.

As far as the information on repairing the M11, no problem.
We gave instructions as we would rather see a registered mg be repaired correctly (no matter who was doing the work) than incorrectly.
As you know, there are only so many out there, one less is not a good thing.

Cheers.

[N4KVE]

Don has built many guns for me. His work is the best. Send it to a PRO. Anyone can weld, but how will it affect other things in the gun. Just send it to Don. GARY N4KVE

[macaholic]

Terma-nator,

If you are speaking about the July 1st shoot at Henry's down in Homestead, that was me!

My dealer just emailed me and suggested Don Quinell for repairs, anybody heard of him? Not sure where he's located. I'll call him Friday.

I thought about just taking it to a professional welder, but the rear support plate just in front of the piece that failed is also bent up a little. I'd feel better if who ever worked on it, knew a little about M11's and could also test fire it along with re-parkerize the finish after welding.

Thanx K2

I think your on the right track with taking the gun to a qualified title 2 gunsmith rather than some chassis welder who has no experience at all with firearms much less title 2 weaponry. Don Quinnell is capable of doing the repair and he is located in Ft Myers. He is usually at the War Mamorial gunshow in Ft Lauderdale as well. If you choose to go out of state, C&S metal werks sounds like they could do the job properly from what I read in their post in respose to you. If I can give a word of advice, after you do the repair don't put that ten inch barrell back on because it can and does create too much back pressure and it's quite possible that that was the cause of the failure along with a faulty weld in the first place.