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Thread: SWD Lightning Link

  1. #1
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    Smile SWD Lightning Link

    thinking of buying a SWD Lightning Link .i have a Friend who has one .my ? is are they very durable will it hold to a lot of range time.can the paddles be replaced legally .one more thing can and where do you get select fire parts that work in this type of conversion. also the price he is asking is 7800.00 is this a good price?
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    you wont need any select fire parts as the L-Link is designed to work in a std ar15 , fa fire and safe when its in place.

    Some folks seem to like the lightning link , I havent had such good luck with durability. For the money I would toss in a few K more and buy a Reg Rec gun

  3. #3
    Registered User Zack3g's Avatar
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    There are parts being made now to strengthen the LL's and make them more durable. Yes, you can replace the paddles without issue.

    A select fire kit can be had, but they're not very common. I'd advise keeping an eye on sturm and subguns, they'd be the first place i'd expect one to show up.

    As to the advice given by panaceabeachbum, I'd agree. The LL is a compromise, and a crappy one at that. It doesn't handle caliber conversions very well.

    You can get a RR conversion for $2-3k more, and they're worth every penny.

  4. #4
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    There are quite a few things a LL can do that a RR can not!

    Lightning Link Info:

    http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=167

    http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=166

    General Info:

    http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html

    The link is a lot of fun, even though I really don't shoot mine much with ammo prices so high. With the select fire kit it feals and shoots the same as a RR or DIAS but I would buy one of the link reinforcement kits. I have one for mine but I don't have photos and my Lightning link is locked up in the bank safety deposit box.

    As for the SF kits, I don't exactly make them but I did show how to do it as it takes about 15-minutes with a bench grinder and a dremel tool. Details are in the links above.

    I use my LL with several of my AR-15s (including AR-15 pistol ). It would work with my AR-47 and AR-10 if I only took the time to do it (details at the links above). If you want a Full Auto AR-10, the Lightning Link is one of the easiest ways to get one!

    I have not been watching LL prices but it seems they were in the $7500 to $8000 range a few months back when I was watching prices. I will never sell my own LL and I would NOT trade it for a registered receiver! My LL can do more then a RR in my oppinion! The ONLY thing a LL does not do is a 22LR conversion but I bought a Norell 10/22 trigger group to do that for me.

    Good Luck!

  5. #5
    Registered User TrippHammer's Avatar
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    A Registered Lightning Link requires an SP-1 bolt. If you can find one it will cost you double that of a reular AR bolt. If you mill your own bolt you will have to deal w/ timing issues. Thats no fun if you don't have the know how or experience.
    LL lovers are very pro (LLink) and they drive the prices, but in my humble opinion!! (I owned an SWD Registered LL) I would have to agree that a registered receiver is a sure thing.
    There's a guy who visits this forum who used to sell select fire parts for Registered Lightning Links.......I can't remeber his name. I purchased one off gun broker and It worked fine, but I had an SP-1.

    Anyway, I sold my Registered SWD Lightning link and purchased an M-16 A1
    If you do purchase the LL make sure and get the KNS protector.

  6. #6
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    You don't need a Colt SP-1 carrier as DPMS carriers work without modification. Also, it is not the bolt but the carrier that is the issue. I have not found getting a carrier to be a problem and people like M60Joe.com can mill down a M-16 carrier if you wanted one of the newest and greatest carriers to use with your link.

    WIth that said, most of my AR-15s all have Colt SP-1 carriers installed as I have been buying them for years (I have about six ARs in various configurations).

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    OK.

    Durability - non-issue now that KNS released their LL protectors. Word on the street is *if* the ears on your LL are broken somehow, the protector is so strong that the LL will still function. I have run thousands of .45ACP and 9mm through my LL without any problems. The paddles can be replaced legally and M60Joe sells paddles in whatever thickness you want.

    SP1 Carrier - Any carrier will work if milled back to the correct thickness. Also, if you mill it too far back, then all you need is a thicker paddle. Timing is much easier to test and fix than RDIAS or RR timing in my opinion.

    Price - a LL goes for about $7500, a RR goes for about 10k, and rdias goes for about 13k. LL is as flexible* as an rdias for almost half the cost and more flexible than a RR for a few thousand less.

    Select Fire - Scott Bell still makes the select fire kits for the LL. I have one and plan on getting a few more. Granted I don't shoot semi often, but I like the option.


    * currently the LL doesn't work with .22LR kits, however, M60Joe is working on the problem. He already proved that it can work by modifing the kit, however, he is trying to get it to work without modifying the kit, just changing out springs.

    I believe that the LL is the best C3 deal out there right now since it is so flexible. Once the LL runs .22LR there will be no advantage to buying an rdias.

    I run my LL in 6.8SPC, 7.62x39, .45ACP, 9mm, and .223 (not much anymore due to the cost of ammo). Won't ever sell it unless I hit hard times.

  8. #8
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    wow ,thanks guys now i really don't know what to do .theres no middle ground you ether love the LL or hate it
    Good times

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grezy
    wow ,thanks guys now i really don't know what to do .theres no middle ground you ether love the LL or hate it
    To me it had nothing to do with love or hate, it was simple flexibility and cost. It does the same thing that an rdias does, just in a different way (for better or worse). I began researching ways that I could achieve full auto in the M16 platform. I really liked the rdias, but couldn't justify twice the price. I also liked the RR, but it was not flexible enough for me, not to mention that IF you had a kaboom with a RR it would cost ALOT of money to get it fixed (if it even could be fixed). Both the rdias and RLL you could pick out of the wreckage and move on (assuming you had fingers after the kaboom).

    I think that the RLL is becoming more popular b/c just a little over a year ago RLL's were going for somewhere around 5.8k with a host, now they are going for 7.5k with no host.

    I am not trying to sway you one way or the other, just giving you all the information instead of "get a RR/RDIAS b/c the RLL sucks".

  10. #10
    Registered User beltfed's Avatar
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    RLL

    For me RLL was the way to go Iím not knocking the R&R or the DIAS they are all great options. The DIAS can be used in other receivers but you should remove all m16 parts when the DIAS is removed; the link can be removed and all you have is a title 1 or SBR if you would like to leave a short barrel on, and I do not remove my modified selector itís just AR 15 parts with 2 position semi with out the link. (Thatís my opinion on the selector) make your own judgment.

    Thereís a lot of misconception especially with modifications needed. The carrier semi or full can be milled by m60joe or you can do it yourself. I have 3 carriers done by m60joe and they all work with the same paddles truly plug and play. Yes the receivers may need some clearance work do it yourself or m60joe not that big a deal. I have heard the same lower and upper issues may be needed for a DIAS to get it set up and running.

    I just liked the idea that I could have 4 or 5 different complete ready to run guns setting in the rack and just pop open remove link and drop in the other and go.

    Itís quite possible you may spend more money with the link in the long run building all the hosts for it.

    Hereís a short video of mine I canít tell the difference
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCDie5UxAgo

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker
    OK.

    Durability - non-issue now that KNS released their LL protectors. Word on the street is *if* the ears on your LL are broken somehow, the protector is so strong that the LL will still function. I have run thousands of .45ACP and 9mm through my LL without any problems. The paddles can be replaced legally and M60Joe sells paddles in whatever thickness you want.

    SP1 Carrier - Any carrier will work if milled back to the correct thickness. Also, if you mill it too far back, then all you need is a thicker paddle. Timing is much easier to test and fix than RDIAS or RR timing in my opinion.

    Price - a LL goes for about $7500, a RR goes for about 10k, and rdias goes for about 13k. LL is as flexible* as an rdias for almost half the cost and more flexible than a RR for a few thousand less.

    Select Fire - Scott Bell still makes the select fire kits for the LL. I have one and plan on getting a few more. Granted I don't shoot semi often, but I like the option.


    * currently the LL doesn't work with .22LR kits, however, M60Joe is working on the problem. He already proved that it can work by modifing the kit, however, he is trying to get it to work without modifying the kit, just changing out springs.

    I believe that the LL is the best C3 deal out there right now since it is so flexible. Once the LL runs .22LR there will be no advantage to buying an rdias.

    I run my LL in 6.8SPC, 7.62x39, .45ACP, 9mm, and .223 (not much anymore due to the cost of ammo). Won't ever sell it unless I hit hard times.
    It is important to note that it is illegal to use our protector to "repair" a broken LL. The BATF requires us to send this info out with every LL protector we sell. It is better to fix your link legally and then use our protector to prevent breakage in the future.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNS_Chris
    It is important to note that it is illegal to use our protector to "repair" a broken LL. The BATF requires us to send this info out with every LL protector we sell. It is better to fix your link legally and then use our protector to prevent breakage in the future.
    Chris - my point to the info was that your product makes a RLL bullet proof so there is no need to worry anymore about it breaking.

  13. #13
    Registered User GunNut105's Avatar
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    I bought a RLL earlier this year and love it. I have two complete guns set up that run 100% with select fire capabilities. Safe/semi/full. I bought my first select fire kit already modified and ready to go. After looking at it, I simply made my own for the second gun. All you need is an A2 burst kit. (I bought a burst kit from sturm for $30) I made the needed modification with a grinder and dremel.
    For both guns, I used the new POF GEnII lowers. They already have markings for safe/semi/full. (Very nice lowers in my opinion) They required minor milling that I completed with a dremel.
    Right now I have a gun built in 223 and one in 9mm. I have the KNS protector and agree that it takes all the stress off the rear tabs.
    I am extremely satisfied with my RLL. I have two brand new guns that run 100% with this device.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by grezy
    thinking of buying a SWD Lightning Link .i have a Friend who has one .my ? is are they very durable will it hold to a lot of range time.can the paddles be replaced legally .one more thing can and where do you get select fire parts that work in this type of conversion. also the price he is asking is 7800.00 is this a good price?
    If you can get a lightning link that cheap buy it. Although I still believe that's over board.

    You know if you stop and think about it. By buying this stuff in the begining we hurt ourselves. I remember the pre May 1986 days. I bought my first AK-47 select fire for $750 now the cheapest I've seen is $15,000. I remember the pre 86 M60 $1200 now you can't get em for less than $25,000. Hell MAC 10's were going for $300. Now still the cheapest in at $3500. How do these people sleep at nite. I don't mind a guy making a profit but some are 10,000% profit. I saw the other day an original FA select fire AR-15 Colt U.S. Army
    going for $250,000. My friends that's B.S. of the worst kind. It's like paying $14,000 or $15,000 for a Lightning Link or DIAS. Why hell you can get a NIB M-16 knock off that's just as good as as Colt for $9000 so why would you want that shit when you can have the real thing? We should start saying no to these scalpers and boycott where we can an start driving prices down.

  15. #15
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    That is all right... By you not buying it helps prevent prices from climbing even faster so I can hopefully get one more before I am done. Prices sure are not comming down and if you decide to sell some of theose $1k M60s I will be quite happy to pay you $10,000 for it so you can be happy with your 10,000% profit!

    Yea, I didn't think if you owned one you would sell it that cheap!

    You need to remember that to replace these, this is the cost of the game. Just like a 1970 LS1 Chevel that may have cost about $4000 in 1970 selling for $500,000 today... If you can't pay to play, you just can't play!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarterbore
    That is all right... By you not buying it helps prevent prices from climbing even faster so I can hopefully get one more before I am done. Prices sure are not comming down and if you decide to sell some of theose $1k M60s I will be quite happy to pay you $10,000 for it so you can be happy with your 10,000% profit!

    Yea, I didn't think if you owned one you would sell it that cheap!

    You need to remember that to replace these, this is the cost of the game. Just like a 1970 LS1 Chevel that may have cost about $4000 in 1970 selling for $500,000 today... If you can't pay to play, you just can't play!
    Yeah I hear ya. Remember that the next time you buy that gal. of gas or that loaf of bread or gal. of milk. If everything in this country went up in price 10,000% you'd be rasing hell. And you can't tell me your not angry every time the price of gas goes up. But it's ok too right. You go ahead and keep buyin them. And be sure and pay for your gas too.

  17. #17
    Registered User subgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piratesover40
    We should start saying no to these scalpers and boycott where we can an start driving prices down.
    You are living in a dream world if you think FA prices will be forced down. Don't blame scalpers blame the net and supply and demand. Pre 86 the machine gun community was very small. Few knew you could own FA weapons or how to go about getting one.

    The net changed all that. How and where to buy is easily researched. So you have a large group of new potential buyers and a fixed supply of weapons.

    Its capitalism in its purest form. Fixed supply with increasing demand yield ever higher prices. The only way this will change is the repeal of the 1986 law allowing new machine guns to be manufactured. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

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    Just picked up a nib colt leo 9mm carbine-should I modify the lower for my rll, if so do I need to ramp the bolt? or should I leave it stock and just use it in my rr 9mm?Beemer

  19. #19
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    If you do decide to run 9mm with the RLL, get the bolt ramped (should be done when using either the RLL or RR) and you MUST get the KNS RLL protector or you just might break the ears off the RLL.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by piratesover40
    Yeah I hear ya. Remember that the next time you buy that gal. of gas or that loaf of bread or gal. of milk. If everything in this country went up in price 10,000% you'd be rasing hell. And you can't tell me your not angry every time the price of gas goes up. But it's ok too right. You go ahead and keep buyin them. And be sure and pay for your gas too.
    Well, that is a fair comparison and for the first time I am looking at hybrid cars and funky V6 Cars that run most of the time on 3-cylinders until I need the extra power.

    We all need to decide what you can or are willing to spend. I can't afford a house on the beach. I can't afford to buy a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS 454. I can' afford a fancy new Shelby GT500. BUT I can still afford to buy a machingun a year and put them away.

    Sure, the $1000 I paid for my M11/9 turned out to be a good investment but back when I bought it there were people that thought I was nuts. I paid about $4500 for my Vector UZI... yea, not too bad now but at the time that was what they cost! Hell, my SWD LL, I only paid $2500 for (yup, I've had it a few years)....

    I could sell these and turn a pretty decent profit on the investment BUT I am buying, NOT selling! I remember the 1970 Chevelle 454 Convertible I wanted to buy when I was in High School and I just couldn't quite afford it at oh $10,000 and I have learned my lesson. Machineguns still have plenty of room to appreciate in value, they take very little room to store, and the are cheap to maintain.

    I don't drive a fancy new car, I don't have a fancy boat, bike, or ??? but I do have a decent collection of firearms. It is where I spend my play money and I sure am not about to stop.
    Last edited by Quarterbore; 09-16-2007 at 11:21 PM.

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