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Thread: RAK-12 SAIGA Conversion

  1. #1
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    Talking RAK-12 SAIGA Conversion

    All,

    I just picked up my Red Jacket Firearms RAK-12 conversion from my FFL (transfered from Atlantic Firearms, who are great to deal with BTW, packing was excellent with the shotgun in a padded case). Let's just say I'm a bit finicky when it comes to firearms, so this is only my first impressions, with much more to follow (range report on Tuesday).

    Overall fit and finish, very good to excellent (one small metal blemish on left side). Shark muzzle brake is awesome, can't wait to see it perform. Side folder is of excellent quality and I like the rubber butt plate, beats the metal underfolder on the AK. I like the Galil style cocking knob. The foregrip with integrated rail is nice, but I'm always leery of polymers when attaching "stuff". The H&K sights are very nice, but the front post is crooked by a few degrees (attention to detail on that one, I'll fix that before I go to the range). The swivels are of good quality and the scope rail is nice (although I'll never use it, I wish I could transfer it to the AK). The pistol grip is also very nice.

    Now for the bad, or at least not so good. I loaded 5 and 10 round mags (10 are a bit bulky, but once loaded and inserted it's good) and I hand cycled several mags, since I can't go to the range until Tuesday. It jams up on the slugs almost everytime and actually damages the casing. We'll see if this is an issue in a live fire test. Birdshot and 00 buck cycle just fine. I am also not a real fan of the mags being plastic, but I'd hate to carry around metal ones, that is for sure!

    More to follow.

    Dave

    P.S. And for those who are still waiting for a Tromix, And I'll post some pics soon.
    Last edited by davep32618; 02-02-2008 at 06:09 PM.
    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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  2. #2
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    I look forward to hearing about how it works out at the range. I've also got a Redf Jacket Saiga conversion on order. A friend of mine who is extremely picky about his guns says that the Red Jacket AK conversions are outstanding quality. I'm hoping the Saigas are just as good.

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    Range Report #1

    Quick notes.

    I brought 25 rounds of Winchester AA 12 gauge, 2&3/4 1250 fps, 1&1/8 oz 7&1/2 shot and 25 rounds of Remington Premium Nitro 12 gauge, 2&3/4 1300 fps, 1&1/8 oz 7&1/2 shot. I also brought 10 rounds of mixed slugs and 00 buck.

    1. It was too much fun! All the guys had to try it out, almost as big a hit as the Uzi.
    2. It fed everything reliably, except when the 10 round mags were fully loaded with 10, then I experienced FTF. With 9 rounds loaded it was fine. Loading the magazines into the weapon takes a little practise, the 5 rounders are much easier than the 10.
    3. Slugs and buck shot cycled just fine.
    4. The cases were tore up when I examined them (from all rounds), I forgot to save one and take a pic.

    I fired with the stock folded and extended and was a hoot either way. Recoil was a noticeable 12 gauge, so I'd hate to feel it without the muzzle brake.
    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    I plan to post a few pics tomorrow, one more thing I noticed was that the safety arms drags through the finish, bummer! But this will be no safe queen, as I don't think I've had more fun at the range than shooting this particular gun! So if in the end you think my review is too harsh, it isn't, this gun rocks! However, any gun that costs over a grand should be perfection (just personal opinion about firearms).

    Dave
    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    Pics for review

    I never claimed to be a photographer, but here they are:
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    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    Receiver scratch from the selector lever:
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    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davep32618
    Receiver scratch from the selector lever:
    Isn't that a standard feature on all AK style weapons?

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    I plan to post a few pics tomorrow, one more thing I noticed was that the safety arms drags through the finish, bummer!


    This is part of the design!

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    Then why do such a nice job of refinishing? I guess that's for the safe queens, I'm a shooter than a collector!
    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    AK saftey levers always mark up that area it is quite typical

  11. #11
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    I agree, and I see it on all my AKs, but those are $300-500 weapons, as stated above when it gets above that I become very picky about fit and finish. I'm not saying it affects the quality of the shooting, its just painful to what that scratch go staight into the metal on the first flip of the selector lever. It is a cosmetic issue, I also pick on my M1A1 for similar issues as it is also above the threshold.

    There were a few hiccups at the range, I will go again soon, but all in all "this gun rocks"! I just want to point out all the flaws, even if they don't affect the average guy that will purchase.
    Last edited by davep32618; 02-07-2008 at 12:10 AM.
    Sometimes a law is enacted to protect our freedom and most of the time laws are enacted to serve the agenda of some special interest group seeking power which often restricts our freedom and, upon this occasion, it prevented the truly gallant from getting their well deserved due.

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    It it the design of the AK selector it will scratch a $300 or $3000 weapon unfortunately

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    the safety on the Makarov will also scratch. It does not matter as it doesnt hurt anything. They are desinged to do it.

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    Range report #2, Worse, not better

    First off, let me preface this by, a semiautomatic shotgun that can shoot more than 5 rounds at a time without reloading, too much @#$%^ (choose your adjective) fun!

    Now the bummer, the cocking knob broke off (and those that know me on the site know I no nothing about mechanics and structure, but as luck would have it, I had a mechanical engineer with me (he did point out the crack, which I did not notice prior to going to the range)). So we made pictures under his microcscope. It looks like a round surface was attempted to be attached to a flat one and had an incomplete weld. Major bummer! The good news is, it happened on the last mag! So at least we had our fun first!

    10 round mags do not seem to feed realiably, load them with 9 and you are golden. They are also difficult to insert, whereas the 5 rounders slide right in.

    Man, I need a drum!

    I used some more of the Winchester AA...no problems, unless you load 10 rounds in the mag. I tried Winchester Super Speed Xtra Game Loads, 1350 FPS, 1 oz and they do not feed relaible at all. They may be the value pack from Wally World that Tony, talks about, I'm not sure, but stay away for this weapon.
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    I know on Tony's website it pretty much says don't talk to him about his work/your gun if you're using 1oz...must be at least 1 1/8...so yeah you're probably right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davep32618
    First off, let me preface this by, a semiautomatic shotgun that can shoot more than 5 rounds at a time without reloading, too much @#$%^ (choose your adjective) fun!

    Now the bummer, the cocking knob broke off (and those that know me on the site know I no nothing about mechanics and structure, but as luck would have it, I had a mechanical engineer with me (he did point out the crack, which I did not notice prior to going to the range)). So we made pictures under his microcscope. It looks like a round surface was attempted to be attached to a flat one and had an incomplete weld. Major bummer! The good news is, it happened on the last mag! So at least we had our fun first!

    10 round mags do not seem to feed realiably, load them with 9 and you are golden. They are also difficult to insert, whereas the 5 rounders slide right in.

    Man, I need a drum!

    I used some more of the Winchester AA...no problems, unless you load 10 rounds in the mag. I tried Winchester Super Speed Xtra Game Loads, 1350 FPS, 1 oz and they do not feed relaible at all. They may be the value pack from Wally World that Tony, talks about, I'm not sure, but stay away for this weapon.
    Use the 1 1/8 oz . About the knob , they ain't suposed to fall off . Send the carrier to me so i can take care of it and I'll throw you a 5 rnd mag in the box to alliviate the headache . Will

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Dreamin
    I know on Tony's website it pretty much says don't talk to him about his work/your gun if you're using 1oz...must be at least 1 1/8...so yeah you're probably right...
    That's correct. 1 I/8 ounce loads ONLY or you can expect malfunctions from weak ejection. WalMart sells a four pack or 25 round boxes for a total of 100 rounds in a value pack that works great in my gun, but of course it's 1 1/8 ounce loads. The cost is around twenty bucks. I may be able to get away with lighter loads now that my Tromix is broken in, but I haven't tried it with lighter loads. I DO know, it wouldn't run at all with the 1 ounce loads when it was new. Very, very weak ejection with most cases not clearing the port.

    Your "problem" inserting the ten round mags sounds normal. Simply use the bolt hold open devise located on the right side by the rear of the trigger. It's near impossible to insert a loaded ten round magazine with the bolt closed. You'll discover the ten round mags load very easily with the bolt open. Just the way it is.

    I've never experienced any issues with the gun not liking a full ten rounds loaded into the magazine. Once again, make sure your ammo is 1 1/8 ounce or more and your problem may go away. My Tromix Galil style top cocker is just fine after may hundreds of rounds. Welding imperfection and mistakes happens. Sounds like a generous offer by the manufacturer to rectify his mistake.

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    Stupid Question Time

    Does any dealer sell the Saiga-12 already pimped out as an AK look-alike? Do you have to get the basic Saiga first then send it in or do the conversion yourself? I've only seen one for sale on SubGuns or Sturm and it went really fast.

    Second dumb question: what should one expect to pay for a Saiga-12 with the AK stock/hand grip/fore grip and other basic required pimping features? The one I saw on SubGuns went so fast I didn't get to see the original asking price.

    Clearly, I'm ignorant beyond all recourse regarding this issue. I've read the thread and it appears I'm lacking a knowledge base regarding the known standard upgrades that everyone agrees are required.

    An eductational website would be helpful to save typing effort.

    Thx.

  19. #19
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    Atlantic stocks several types and enjoys a great reputation here on the board.

    http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...ew.asp?CatId=5

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG
    Atlantic stocks several types and enjoys a great reputation here on the board.

    http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...ew.asp?CatId=5
    Thanks, Tom! Not leaving well enough alone, what feature or features of the $1200+ shotguns make them really worth the extra $400 over the basic AK conversion model for $849? For me, shotgun sights are pretty much the same unless there's a red dot mount capability. The G2 "no-slap" fire control set might be something that is truly value added but ignorance is rampant here.

    Please enlighten me, oh Sensei.

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