South African R series of weapons information thread (lots of pictures)

[lcastillo]

Ruski nice pictures! It is great to see these rifles in action. I have some questions. What is the duty issued sidearm you carry? Do you carry your rifles in the trunk of your patrol vehicle or are you accustomed to carry you rifle at all times while on patrol ( It looks like you belong to a entry unit, so that might be a dumb question to ask)? I noticed you carry 2 magazines side by side is that your personal choice or required by your police department. Is there a special technique you use for quick magazine changes? Does your unit use any type of optics (I noticed one of the female officers with what looks like a Aimpoint on her rifle)? My brother wants to know if the first female officer doing crunches is single ~ Thanks Again Lou

[ruski5181]

Lol, Single yes, mentaly stable, probably not....
Yeah, we have had a mixture of entry teams over the years, we keep getting broken up and reformed, the police wants to look all happy and friendly in the public eye, then they realise there are some bad people out there that they need so they get us together again...
It depends on the day, if they give us a normal patrol car we try to dress as close to the regular cops as we can and the rifle and gear bags are in the boot, but the first hot call its on... Then if im driving my passenger holds her for me until we jump out, or if passenger she's on my lap... If we are in an armoured vehicle I am either commander (sit next to the driver and have a turret above me, or a door operator, so she is slung on me with stock folded...
Our Duty issued sidearm is a thing of wonder, as with the R5, its a copy, made by Vektor its based on the Beretta 92m/sf/ Taurus 92.... lovely weapon, very very hardy 9mmm 9x19 15 rnd mag...
2 mags, side by side... personal choice, in those pictures i see i was using my old mag strap device, i have sinced moved to a lovely little thing i found in an airsoft shop in London one day... i think it was designed for M4 mags, but fits my metal R5 mags perfectly the mags clip snugly in it, and it holds them each at a good angle, heavy though, hehe
there is a technique we have for quick change, i do have a video of me showing a class how to it... In fact, on the 2 mags strapped department, they actually prefer us to carry as little as possible, they have in recent times stopped us carrying shotguns and discourage the use of r5's as they are trying to win public opinion, its a tense situation in this country between police and civilians as most cops treat everyone equally as the calibre of officer is not great... long story.. corrupt commisioner employed stupids...

The police and Prison Services are not issued with optics, but the army can get but we have to buy our own if we want to use, and our own mounts, very hard to come by here.... Oh and you may only use Trijicon branded Acogs... If you fit anything else, you do it when you come on shift and take it off when you leave and dont take pictures, hehe

Im happy to chat all day about this stuff, stop me if you get bored

[lcastillo]

Haha Ruski, I get your meaning on the unstable side of women. I would love to see the video of your classroom training. We see a lot of advanced training here for the AR-15 platform, but not much on the Galil/R5/Golani family of rifles. I have only just recently become the owner of the Galil family of rifles. I just purchased my first Golani a few months ago. The first time I took my Golani out to the range my charge handle broke off during firing and I had to send it out for repair. It has been there for 11 weeks and I have not had any time to enjoy it. I am eager to learn more about special and practical tactics with the Galil/R5 rifle. There is not much instructional information along the way on Galil weapons tactics here, especially coming from professionals like youself. My father is originally from the country of Honduras in Central America. This is where I first learned about the Galil platform. I think it is a excellent rifle. By the way your department not providing optics for your rifles sucks but, I truly believe that you are at a advantage by not training with any type of optics. When it comes down to it, less is better (sometimes we rely to much on gadgets that can fail at the worst time). This is not the first time I have heard of this attitude, the COBRA unit of the Honduran National Police follow the same principle of just iron sights when it comes to defensive and offensive readiness. Let me know when you get your UTG rail, I would love to see how you set up your duty R5. I own a Aimpoint CompML2 and Trijicon ACOG TA31-RCO. I will tell you one thing I learned, that adding a rail, optics, forend pistol grip and weaponlight to my AR length Golani does make it quite heavy as heck. Have no fear of talking away I (we) enjoy to hear from a person with your level of expertise. I would love to have a pen pal from South Africa. BTW Africa is such a beautiful country. You are a lucky man. Thanks Lou

[ruski5181]

After a while you get the feel of the clip in the front of the mag and if you don't panic you can roll magazines in and out of the galil with accuracy and speed, we practice in the classroom, then have half the detail on the firing line practicing while the other half practice dry drills (you wanna lol at students when they are in the middle of a mag change and multiple gun shots come from the next range over, they almost drop everything... if you know what i mean) Trijicon Acogs are what our unit members dream of at night, I would love to get one, but i think i am looking at over $300 US, which is beyond budget.... hope this link works http://s1254.photobucket.com/albums/...t=IMGP1231.mp4

[lcastillo]

After a while you get the feel of the clip in the front of the mag and if you don't panic you can roll magazines in and out of the galil with accuracy and speed, we practice in the classroom, then have half the detail on the firing line practicing while the other half practice dry drills (you wanna lol at students when they are in the middle of a mag change and multiple gun shots come from the next range over, they almost drop everything... if you know what i mean) Trijicon Acogs are what our unit members dream of at night, I would love to get one, but i think i am looking at over $300 US, which is beyond budget.... hope this link works http://s1254.photobucket.com/albums/...t=IMGP1231.mp4

I have never seen a tac mag change like that before. That is why I asked. If I ever get my Golani this week I will try it out. Yes the ACOGs are expensive. I bought mine for $1200.00 US. If it was not for my wife, Father, Brother and 2 sisters all chipping in to buy it as my christmas present, I would still be saving up for one to this day. They are worth the money. It took me a little bit to adjust to the bindon aiming concept (using both eyes open for CQB with some magnification visible thru the ACOG) I was used to the Aimpoint COO M68 with no magnification thru the glass. After I got used to it, I will never go back. The bullet drop compensation is another great feature the ACOG brings to the table. I was curious in my paperwork Trijicon is very anal about importing these out of the US. Are you guys allowed to by direct from Trijicon with no hassle or do you have to fill out tons of forms to get one? With your R5 what rule of thumb do you use for close shots with sights sitting higher than the barrel (aim higher). Does your deparment ecourage you to train regularly? What type and where does your ammunition come from?

[lcastillo]

Was that you in the video?

[lcastillo]

Ruski, I know you are dying to get your UTG rail. So in the meantime I added some pictures and information that might interest you in the meantime here http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showth...-for-the-galil

[hagar]

Ruski, baie interressant, hou so voort!

[ruski5181]

Dankie Hagar, sal so! Icastillo, I see your pics on the UTG, am drooling for mine now! That was me in the video, you cant see the big group of students behind me that i am showing...
$1200 , cough, thats a months salary, to save for that would take a year! easy! Our gun shops here have good relationships with the states for guys to buy privately, the army guys all get theirs from stores, presumably they have a stockpile...
The R5 we usually carry with the front night site flipped up, day and night, generally close quarter u will hit whatever you put the sight on.. and being in the 'new' police we are discouraged from using rifles and hardly ever shoot them unless being shot at and you have one with you, for example the station i am based at now, i have my own R5 because i shoot competition with it. But the entire rest of the 64 members in there have 1 other R5... to share... very sad!
We use state issued ammunition, most of it is stockpiled from the 80's, ( i am carrying 5 mags of 1989 stamped ammo at the moment) i think, i stand under correction that PMP, a division of denel mass produced all our ammo for us which we shoot out as much as possible when at the range , which for regular force member is once every 2 years, myself, about 10 times a year....

[lcastillo]

Ruski, Yes the ACOG is not a cheap scope by all means. I figured this, if you look at the price on a Aimpoint or EOtech they are priced much less, however the ACOG stands alone in the fact that it has magnification and needs no batteries. So if you want to upgrade to magnification say with the Aimpoint you are already looking at over $1000.00 price tag with a scope + magnifier+hardware. Then if you compare the ACOG's 12 year shelf life to the batteries you would have to buy for a EOtech over 12 year period, the ACOG might be cheaper? I have see some used ACOG's online latley, I had a guy on craiglist (yes craiglist) selling one for $600.00, I offered him $450.00 and he said he would take it. The guy lived 30mins away and about the time I was leaving to go meet him the he called me back saying he sold it for $600.00. I can't say I blame him, I wish I could have bought it. Are the night sights on the R5 designed for CQB? is the point of impact different on the night sights vs. standard sights? I am surprised that your department only has 2 R-5's, do they have any other weapons for SWAT scenarios? Do you see any funding coming from the South African govt. for addition training and weapons for the war on terror? What do the S.A.P. use for sniper weapons? Have you ever had to shoot a wild African animal with your R5 in the line of duty (or off )? Thanks Lou

[hagar]

My fully auto R1 took countless hares, warthogs and feral cats when I was in the SADF from 1975-1979. Totally illegal of course, but I was young and it was all I had, and the statute of limitations has hopefully expired..

[lcastillo]

My fully auto R1 took countless hares, warthogs and feral cats when I was in the SADF from 1975-1979. Totally illegal of course, but I was young and it was all I had, and the statute of limitations has hopefully expired..

Hagar is a hares a rabbit? I have always been curious in a country where there are big cats and elephants if you get called on to dispose of one when it becomes a threat to the population. How effective is a 5.56 on a frontal head shot on warthog? Those things can be tough to kill. Thanks for the information.

[ruski5181]

Well, there is a guy on ebay today selling a pretty Acog for $28 so far, bidding is fast and furious though, i tried to bid but ebay wouldnt let me cause he has marked it as military equipment, dammit! lol
The night sights i wouldnt use for anything over say 50 metres, shooting in the dark when you cant see what you are aiming at, not smart, lol
The army have the bolt on sights they just change coverplates and full night vision! We have the special task force who deal with high risk SWAT scenarios, and its like the movies watching these guys, us boys in blue put on our helemts and grab the popcorn when they arrive, they have 2 man sniper teams with all the spotting gear and wind and elevationa dn range finders, intel teams with radar and parabolic mic's, entry teams with MP5's and HK USP's (drool) they train everyday they are super fit. all trained as hostage negotiators and para jumpers and divers, so for police they can go anywhere they want anytime, their uniform is very different from ours, they don't wear blue! Unfortunately I am too old to join now, (pushing 30 this year) but admire them greatly! They im sure do thier bit for the southern african war on terror, but im afraid our government are useless in helpig us train and help other countries with the crime problem we all have. Our members are willing, but no money.
We don't have many wild animals in my part of the country, only the criminals, and our gun laws wouldnt really allow that. Its a different story if a drug dealer sets a dog on you during a house penetration. But you feel very bad!

[lcastillo]

Well, there is a guy on ebay today selling a pretty Acog for $28 so far, bidding is fast and furious though, i tried to bid but ebay wouldnt let me cause he has marked it as military equipment, dammit! lol
The night sights i wouldnt use for anything over say 50 metres, shooting in the dark when you cant see what you are aiming at, not smart, lol
The army have the bolt on sights they just change coverplates and full night vision! We have the special task force who deal with high risk SWAT scenarios, and its like the movies watching these guys, us boys in blue put on our helemts and grab the popcorn when they arrive, they have 2 man sniper teams with all the spotting gear and wind and elevationa dn range finders, intel teams with radar and parabolic mic's, entry teams with MP5's and HK USP's (drool) they train everyday they are super fit. all trained as hostage negotiators and para jumpers and divers, so for police they can go anywhere they want anytime, their uniform is very different from ours, they don't wear blue! Unfortunately I am too old to join now, (pushing 30 this year) but admire them greatly! They im sure do thier bit for the southern african war on terror, but im afraid our government are useless in helpig us train and help other countries with the crime problem we all have. Our members are willing, but no money.
We don't have many wild animals in my part of the country, only the criminals, and our gun laws wouldnt really allow that. Its a different story if a drug dealer sets a dog on you during a house penetration. But you feel very bad!

Ruski, I really want to thank you for sharing about your job, tactics and by posting some of your pictures here. I hope you do not mind if I keep asking questions about R5 weapon tactics. If anything we might have to start a new thread about R5 tactics I did get my Golani back from Century Arms today. I can provide you with more pictures and additional feed back. Can you tell us what method you where taught to charge your R5? Do you use left hand over the top or right hand with a left hand hold? Keep in touch! Lou

[ruski5181]

No Problem, I don't mind answering questions when i have the time, like now In basic you are taught flat palm of your left hand over the weapon toward you pull charging handle back firmly make sure you can see the chamber is clear of obstruction and let charging handle go, allowing the force of the push forward to cock the weapon, you get a klap(smack) of you assist the charging handle forward.
This is used in street survival course as well so that you trigger is accesable quickly if needs be, ie, if you are having to do an emergency mag change while being rushed, you can pull the trigger as soon as that breach closes.
On the range the same method is used with the edition of once you shoot your 10 or 12 rounds whichever the excercise you holdy the breach open for inspection with the magazine next to the weapon so the range officer can clear you.

All pretty straight forward stuff, obviously you adapt it when you are crawling through the bushes in the dead of night stalking house breakers in your camos but thats a whole other story

As for tactics, the swat used to be weapon in shoulder hunker down make youself small, obviously swat evolves as police tactics and situations do (I havent earned my SWAT badge, cause they have stopped offering the course, but i like to think i know it all by now) so our new approach for room entry is the squared off apprach as this is where our most bullet resistant armour is and our field of vision is equal and our weapon will most likely hit where you body is facing.

Im by no means a wealth of information i truely just speak from experience, but am happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability

[lcastillo]

Ruski, That is great stuff. I have heard that SA is fast becoming a trans-shipment point for South American drugs heading to Europe. What is the biggest danger to a South African police agent in the line of duty today? Are drug dealers well armed? Are there AK-47's readily available to the bad guys? Do you patrol with a partner? Are there gangs and if so what are their names? Thanks again!

[ruski5181]

Hi Guys, not sure if this is the right section but I can't find a better one....
This guys is selling 1 plastic mag and 3 metal ones, you are welcome to use my postbox and i will work out the cheapest way to ship to states if you want the mags...

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/57903...H_WAR_ERA.html
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/57904...H_WAR_ERA.html

lcastillo, I'm not very involved with Hawks or NIU or task force ops, So i wouldnt know about international drug port, what I do know is that we have a massive drug problem internally, meth labs, marijuanna (dagga) fields, Crack, heroin, and Kjat are an issue.

The drug dealers are 2 groups, well armed foreign nationals from Africa, senogolese, nigerian, congolese, mozambique, kenyans.... very bad lot, very good liars, alot of fake documents, guns, drugs, women, alot of money, very dangerous!

The second problem is the 'coloured' community, what British call mied race, not sure what you would classify as, they hav become a race of their own in our demographic, in general, not really a problem, but they are impoverished in general, and form gangs very very easily, we have an area called the cape flats where they generally live, a community of a couple of million and the gangs run the streest at night, weapons arent really a problem, they are shifty but not smart, so if the get an auto weapon by stealing it or paying a local they generally get caught using it to shoot up a rivals car or something.

The local black community when it comes to crime are into the get rich quick, drugs are a side thing, they use them but dont often deal, they are into cash in transit, atm bomings, hijack, armed robbery etc.

I know this isnt the most PC post reading it, and I am not profiling , these are facts that help us as Police stay alive, there are always the acception to the rule and not everyone deserves to be painted with the same brush, however an ingrained sense of community through segregation between the races is showing through, even thugh it is a free and fair democracy everyone has a sense of community and culture still.

I suppose if someone has a problem with my insites they can delete my post

[lcastillo]

Ruski, Thanks for you info. I understand your reply. I did ask you about drugs and gangs after all. When it comes to gangs genarally they fall into some sort of social class for example the MS-13 in the USA is primarily made up of hispanics from El Salvador. What does the SAPS Diamond and Gold branch do? Is it like the equivalent of the US Secret Service? Are you a member of the Special Task Force or have you recieve your training from SAPS STF? Was SAPS STF trained by the Isreali Military. Where do you fall under the SAPS 6 divisions? Do you work alongside with the volunteers of SARPS? Does South African goverment require you to serve in the military and is it a requirement to have military service before you joine SAPS? OK I'll give you a breather from all the questions. Take care! Lou

[ruski5181]

lol, hey Lou,
Diamond and Gold branch (if they are still around) because we are a mining country as such, we have alot of gold, platinum and diamonds being mined here in raw form and they need to be transported, exported, shipped, moved around, bought and sold, so we have to have laws in place to make sure people dont take advantage of us and our resources, this unit enforces these laws. As far as I know they are specialised like the currency unit or counter terror team. ie. no one knows who they are, who works there what they wear, what they use, they just have unlimited budget at their disposal to try prevent corruption. I think they would be more like your treasury department (is it federal?) we have SARS here too which would contribute to the team.
I wish I was STf, no, afraid not, not even NIU, their brothers in Blue..
STF are.. an amazing bread, every police officer looks up to them and would love to be them, they are very select with very intense training. I fall under Vispol division.
The SAPS reserve is where i would fall in, ie. Love the job, would love to do it every day, but Government don't have a job for me, its a political thing im afraid.
The SAPS and the military split their relationship in 1995 when the SAP became the SAPS ( adding service to the end) so the military training side of the SAPS has become less, but no we where never required to serve in the military.
Fire away man, anyone who is interested is welcome to ask.

[lcastillo]

When you mean political thing does that mean the Police Union? What is the reason behind why South Africa paints the R series rifle in brown? Many of the countries that carry the Galil are going to the Tavor, do you see SAPS going the same route?