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Thread: South African R series of weapons information thread (lots of pictures)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomovich
    The best place to get R4/5 parts for a clone build are.......?? Besides the front sight and buffer that's always on gunbroker as of late????

    TIA
    The R4/R5 parts do pop up from time to time. And it's sometimes quite a search to collect them all. I know it takes time, I had TennGalil buid one of each for me.

    Here's my boys:


    And the R5 I had done in Nutria brown, which is correct for the S.A. bush war in the 80's. Have to admit, that brown, it's an aquired taste. And it was a journey to aquire everything. I got down to the last missing piece and was stuck there for quite some time.

    Now for the shameful, self-serving part of this post: I need a R4 sling. Anybody got an extra one?

    RM308

  2. #22
    Registered User tomovich's Avatar
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    Thanks, they sure look sweet.

  3. #23
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    Recently picked up some more South African parts. I finally have a SA bolt carrier and have picked up what I think is another SA top cover. So, on to the pics:

    Bolt Carrier: Most pictures of the R-4/5/6 show a bolt carrier that’s cocking handle is machined in the upward position opposed to some (early?) Galils that have their cocking handles bent upward. There appear to be two different types of these machined handles and one type is almost exclusively on the South African made rifles. I have seen a few early pictures with more Galil like carriers in early rifles. For supporting evidence the font the casting number (batch number?) on the right side of the bolt is in a different font than my other Israeli carriers. The main difference in the carriers is in the profile of the rear of the cocking knob/stem, the Israeli versions have the edge broken the SA one does not. The SA carrier also came with an SA gas piston.
    South African carrier is on the left and has not been refinished.



    Other side, note the font differences (SA carrier on the top, Israeli on the bottom):


    The next item is another South African top cover. This one is slightly different than my previous one, the spot welds are bigger (more like Israeli) but the both top covers share a “sharper” stamping than the Israeli. What I mean by that is if you look at the edges of the South African cover they are much sharper than the Israeli cover, especially at the rear of the cover.
    Israeli cover on the left, South African on the right:



    Both South African covers, one with small spot welds one with larger, compare with the Israeli cover above:



    One of my South African top covers is serial numbered (the other is not) and here it is compared to the style of the Israeli S/Ns. If you look closely you can also see some luminous paint on the bottom of the night sight on the South African cover, I have no idea why. I have a SA front night sight also covered in luminous paint. SA cover on the bottom:


    Last difference for today, the rear sights. On this cover the numbers on the rear sights are recessed like the Israeli sights (and not like MColeman’s that are raised, maybe a later sight?) but the “3” is a different type, not flat on the top but curved. SA sight on the left:


    Recently had my R-5 back to tenngalil for some things and he installed the correct style gas block on the rifle. Note that compared to the old type (an early SAR block) this one is rounded on the bottom and not nearly as long as an AR block.


    Front view:

    Rifle is placed on top of a SA SF niemoller rifle case.

    And for Tomovich, your just going to keep looking. I lucked into most of my parts. I got a few from the forum, a few from gunbroker, a few from Ontario gun up in canada (who is long since out, I bought his last ones) and a few from other boards. It took me about three years to find all the parts and that was mostly by luck. Getting them from South Africa is also a losing proposition, they stopped making R series weapons in the mid 1990s and parts are hard to find for SA gunowners and the Army!

    RM308- Nice rifles!

    mrf2

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM308

    Now for the shameful, self-serving part of this post: I need a R4 sling. Anybody got an extra one?

    RM308
    Jeff has one for sale,

    http://members.fortunecity.com/swatshop/decision.htm

    It is listed under "FIELD GEAR, WEBBING EQUIPMENT, ACCOUTREMENTS"

    Also has some R4 magazines for sale.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by R4
    Jeff has one for sale,

    http://members.fortunecity.com/swatshop/decision.htm

    It is listed under "FIELD GEAR, WEBBING EQUIPMENT, ACCOUTREMENTS"

    Also has some R4 magazines for sale.
    R4

    Thanks for the link. I'll check back often. The only R4 sling he seems to have, has the troopers initials on it. I'd rather wait for a "clean one".

    RM308

  6. #26
    Registered User Ruddiger's Avatar
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    Great info in this sticky! Thanks.

    Man, I would sure love to see confirmation of S.A. rifles in 7.62x39, as discussed in this thread. Also, for additional S.A. trivia knowledge, here's some info on the Vektor H-5.

  7. #27
    Registered User Ruddiger's Avatar
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    S.A. pistol grip on left. Surface finish is not as glossy, and the contours are slightly more angular than IMI:



  8. #28
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    LM-4 value

    Anyone have an idea as to what an original LM-4 that has sat in a safe since 1986 with maybe 300 rounds fired, is worth?

  9. #29
    Registered User Yog's Avatar
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    I don't know... but...

    Veritas,

    I don't know what it's worth. But, I'd sure love to see pictures of it and dream of adding it to my collection!

    Joel N.
    "Yog" (in Alaska)
    "Molon Labe!"

  10. #30
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    LM-4

    Name:  woyt2 001a.JPG
Views: 5023
Size:  14.4 KB

    Name:  Woyt 002.JPG
Views: 4144
Size:  13.0 KB

    Sorry . . I am technically challenged and still have figure out how not to exceed the file size. It has a muzzle cap on and the tritium night sights were removed by Customs . . also has an Israeli Orlite magazine.

  11. #31
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    The LM-4 looks the part. Closer pictures would be great, especialy of the left side of the weapon, they have a unique logo there. One thing to be aware of is the receiver has a third pin in the trigger group, designed to hold the auto sear. Your pictures are not quite clear enough, but it looks like the picture has that third pin (or it's a selector stop, like the Israeli imports, can't tell). If you are in the US that would make this a machine gun.

    If it is yours or you have access to it we would love to see detailed pictures! If you don't want to mess with posting them, send them to me and I will post them. PM me for my e-mail address.

    Thanks for the pics!

  12. #32
    Registered User Ruddiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrf2
    Closer pictures would be great, especialy of the left side of the weapon, they have a unique logo there.
    Mrf2, I don't see the logo you are referring to in this R5 photo... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...5_Feb_2008.jpg unless you mean the barely visible mark above the lightening cut? Do you know whether the Vektor logo appeared on either the LM-4 or LM-5 semiauto civilian versions? Thanks.

  13. #33
    Registered User Ruddiger's Avatar
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    Found a close-up pic...

  14. #34
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    That's the logo. As far as I know its only on the LM series of weapons, the R series don't have any additional marks besides serial numbers.

  15. #35
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    Hi all,
    Am in the gun industry here in SA. Yep, the parts are becomming very hard to get here. Used to have drawers full, now I am down to just a very few of each.
    Keeping most for my own gun (LM5) and an LM4 in parts waiting to be built.
    I will see what parts I do have spare, and offer them up here over time.

    Among the more unusual items I have for my guns is an army .22 conversion kit that was done for a very short time, and I have now gotten the night vision scope used on a special dust cover. Very large item, but works well. Pics only in a few days.

    Will try and answer any questions on the Lm/R series guns, but i see most of it has been covered. I do have wooden prototype furniture that appears handmade, and was likely tried but not adopted. Forend and grip, but not the Israeli stuff, this is a bit crude.

    SaMac

  16. #36
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    SaMac,
    I don't suppose you have access to SADF webgear/vests or other items???

  17. #37
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    SaMac-

    Welcome to the site! I am sure that the members (I know I would!) would love ot see pictures of your Night vision scope and .22 kit. In addition, any other information you could share about the development or use of the R-series weapons would be outstanding!

    Welcome!

  18. #38
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    Over the years I got asked many times for Pat 83 and other vests/webgear. I see it from time to time, never in great quantities. And it was always just too bulky and heavy to ship, and so I never really bothered.
    If anyone wants, I will try and put them in touch with people who can get. Not something I enjoy shipping out, but can maybe make a plan.

    Will take some time, but I have a bunch of stuff I can post pics of.

    SAMac

  19. #39
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    I'd like to get at least one more R4 canvas sling like is shown in the pics here. the guy on Fortune City was apparently out of them. Any more ideas?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by loner42
    I believe the purplish coloration on the bolts comes from the heatreat process. They might 've used a different metal or heatreat method than the Izzys.
    I've seen that same color on various Chinese gun parts for AK's, Makarovs, etc.
    The finish on the bolt is blued. It takes on a purple hue due to the carbon content of the steel reacting with the oxidization probably altered by heat treatment. If you look at any of the original blued K98 mausers their bolts are also this same color as is my K98 sniper.

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