South African R series of weapons information thread (lots of pictures)

[ruski5181]

So, I have a conundrum, an impasse of sorts was hoping the wiser would prevail but I am battling, here is the issue...

I have the opportunity to purchase my very own sub assembly, I cant afford it, but that's not the issue, the issue is

The LM4 and LM5 subs are the same price so that's not an issue, ( this reading suspense must be killing lou)

They have stock of both, not an issue

the LM5 they have are 1:12 barrel which is perfect, I could buy it now, get on the range and start shooting competitions

the LM4's they have are 1:7 twist and are for local or export, cause the bullet weight of my state ammo is not ideal for these, even the supplier says he agrees, don't get it if that's the ammo you are going to use!

now, problem is....

Do I wait for them to get 1:12 LM4 barrels and save up more money in the meantime, cause that's the one I really want or do I get the LM5 cause, hey, why not its a great tool and I can still win with it and im familiar with it more so than the LM4 as I carry the R5 every weekend with me. I am just so torn... any suggestions

[chubby]

My vote - go with the LM4, especially if you already own or have access to an R5-LM5 through work.
Which barrel twist, sounds like a question of patience?
Do they allow you to compete with custom loads, can you bring your own ammo?
Might be more worthwhile to wait and save up either way. Even though the 1:7 is available now, you'd still have to find a way to feed it.

[Ady]

Ruski, my mom always tells me, if you see something that you want then get it now because you don't know what will happen down the line.

I would get the LM5 in the meantime and it shoots just as accurate as the LM4 even out to 300m. I would avoid the 1:7 twist like the plague here in SA. If you are shooting comps with state ammo then a 1:12 twist is a no brainer.

The demand for LM's is so great at the moment you wouldn't battle selling the LM5 for a LM4 later on or just have both.

[adipose]

Steve, you know what my answer would be; get them both

[lcastillo]

So, I have a conundrum, an impasse of sorts was hoping the wiser would prevail but I am battling, here is the issue...

I have the opportunity to purchase my very own sub assembly, I cant afford it, but that's not the issue, the issue is

The LM4 and LM5 subs are the same price so that's not an issue, ( this reading suspense must be killing lou)

They have stock of both, not an issue

the LM5 they have are 1:12 barrel which is perfect, I could buy it now, get on the range and start shooting competitions

the LM4's they have are 1:7 twist and are for local or export, cause the bullet weight of my state ammo is not ideal for these, even the supplier says he agrees, don't get it if that's the ammo you are going to use!

now, problem is....

Do I wait for them to get 1:12 LM4 barrels and save up more money in the meantime, cause that's the one I really want or do I get the LM5 cause, hey, why not its a great tool and I can still win with it and im familiar with it more so than the LM4 as I carry the R5 every weekend with me. I am just so torn... any suggestions

Ruski5181, Yeah I always am in suspense with all the stuff you post about but I really gotta ask you since I put a 1-7 twist on my R4 build? I was under the impression that you can shoot about any weight ammunition thru 1-7 twist barrels? I also thought the heavier grain bullets get better spin for accuracy downrange? Are you saying that the lighter grain bullets get better accuracy down range (55 grain SA ammo)? I know you and Ady get quite bit of range time with your R & LM Series (especially with distance) so I respect your opinions. Thanks Lou

[lcastillo]

Steve, you know what my answer would be; get them both

Adipose why did I guess you would say that You know you might be able to open the largest Galil museum in the USA with your lengthy collection of Galil's! Haha. You are the best man!

[Ady]

Lou, your 1:7 twist should do fine with 55gr bullets, but you would probably get better accuracy especially over distance with a heavier bullet. The 1:12 twist doesn't put enough spin on a heavier bullet to stablise it in flight especially out to distance. Close range (30m) should have no problem in IPSC type matches, but when you start going out to 200m and 300m your accuracy with a heavier bullet in a 1:12 twist just wont do, this is where your 1:7 twist with a heavier bullet will shine.

There is nothing wrong with a 1:12 twist shooting a 55gr bullet at around 3000 ft/s both at close range and out to 300m. In Ruski's case shooting state ammo (55gr) in competition with a 1:12 twist will be ideal, thats what the R series rifles were designed for. For optimum shooting in competition Ruski would have to shoot a 65gr bullet in a 1:7 twist to get the best results, but that would require reloading as 55gr would probably be too light for the fast twist rate.

I have beaten guys in competition with my LM5 and they were shooting R4's out to 300m. You just have to know your rifle and where your POI will be. At those distances the wind is your biggest enemy with such a light bullet and that front iron sight fills the target, can you imagine what the thicker Galil sight post must do at that distance? Shooting any further than that with the LM5's shorter barrel would be very difficult, thats where the R/LM4 would do better. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot further than 300m on a range yet.

[Tenngalil]

why not just get another barrel and swap them out as needed?

[Ady]

why not just get another barrel and swap them out as needed?

In SA that would require two seperate firearm licenses which would make it a nightmare. Our authorities aren't fond of giving out two licenses for the same caliber of firearm. It is hard enough trying to get a license for a semi-auto rifle on its own.

[Tenngalil]

so, when you shoot out the barrel what happens?

[Ady]

so, when you shoot out the barrel what happens?

IF, you can find a new barrel. A gunsmith would have to provide a certificate confirming the barrel is shotout and supply details of the new barrel to the authorities. The owner would then have to waite for a new license to be issued reflecting the changed serial numbers which in all probability would take several months. Our firearm laws are very restrictive and archaic.

[Tenngalil]

I guess the ATF is pretty easy compared with what you guys go through.
let me guess, crooks can get whatever they want without the paperwork?

[Ady]

I guess the ATF is pretty easy compared with what you guys go through.
let me guess, crooks can get whatever they want without the paperwork?

Always, and the head of our Central Firearm Registry (CFR, our licensing authority in the SA police service) has just been arrested on suspicion of taking bribes to get licenses through quicker. Fortunately for me my new license came through a couple of weeks before this all broke.

[ruski5181]

Guys, Thanks for all the input, Adipose, your wisdom is appreciated :P

Ady has it spot on, our lighter weight state ammo the 55gr just wont like the 1:7 especially since we shoot mostly at 300 sometimes 400Metres. I am leaning toward the LM5 at this stage, even though I like the look of the LM4 so much more.

Tenngalil, Ady is right again, the licencing of multiple barrels would be close to impossible, although, with the right justification, anything is possible under the new act, just need to motivate it to the right person, I know guys who can get full auto AK's here, just need to explain why in the world you would need it. in the Western Cape where I am, I reckon you would never get it, in Northern Cape with Kruger and rhino poaching, maybe you just might Shoot the bastards!

My next mission is to take a new 2010 round and pull the head out and a 93 round and pull that to pieces and see if there is a weight difference, if my suspicions are correct, the 2010 ammo is going tobe heavier, the guys with the older barrels are hating the new ammo saying it is all over the place, cant hold a group, with my 92 barrel on my R5 is disagree.... So lets see

[lcastillo]

Always, and the head of our Central Firearm Registry (CFR, our licensing authority in the SA police service) has just been arrested on suspicion of taking bribes to get licenses through quicker. Fortunately for me my new license came through a couple of weeks before this all broke.

Ady, wow bribes? It sounds like Honduras. In Honduras if you have good connections within the Police and Military you can get a permit to carry a bazooka if you want. I am sure with the right "donations" it happens in the U.S.A. So what happens to all the permits these guys issued, do they get revoked?

[lcastillo]

Ruski5181,

As always I thank your contributions to this thread. So thanks to your pictures I am able to make my R4 look more credible. So here is an example of what I can do with your information

I did not quite know what the numbered stickers on the bottom of the receivers of the R4 from your day shooting with S.A.D.F. members, but I did make my own version of them based on your pictures.

I simply used adhesive back address computer label, black & blue marker and scissors. I also covered the sticker with clear packaging tape to protect it from the elements and dirt.

So here are the pictures of the real R4 you took and mine side by side.

The "68" is for the year I was born.

[lcastillo]

Here are some more pictures

[hagar]

Somebody on the Facebook SADF border war group made the statement that the R4 was more accurate than the Galil SAR. Is that hogwash or is there some truth to that? That would be comparing both rifles with a 1 in 12 twist.

[lcastillo]

Somebody on the Facebook SADF border war group made the statement that the R4 was more accurate than the Galil SAR. Is that hogwash or is there some truth to that? That would be comparing both rifles with a 1 in 12 twist.

Hagar, I would dare to say that the R4's 18"(1-12 twist) barrel will be more accurate than the SAR's 13"(1-12) barrel at longer distance shooting. I have heard though that in close range shooting ( or Close Quarter Combat) that smaller barreled rifles can perform better. This would be due to the SBR giving the user a quicker sight acquisition due to size and lighter weight. In turn the larger barreled rifles are more cumbersome in these type of situations due to their larger size and weight. Hands down if I wanted to shoot at longer distance I would go with the R4's 18" barrel.

[ruski5181]

Hey guys, Lou, im not sure what the sticker was fr on that day I think maybe an inventory count, a school style folder sticker would be exactly what they would use for that! Im still so torn about my LM, so many just sitting waiting, I feel I need to home them... I need lottery money!