South African R series of weapons information thread (lots of pictures)

[Ady]

Thanks for the welcome guys, i must say i stumbled on this site and have enjoyed the reading so far, very interesting.

I also like the 5.56 round Lou. Saw a documentary on discovery about the 5.56 round with some marines shooting on a range. It is very devastating from what i have seen, but i have to agree with Ruski, if i was in a fight with AK weilding thugs i would prefer someone in my immediate vicinity to have a R1.

Lou i use a LM5, Glock 22 (40 S&W) and i have a Franchi semi-auto 12g shotgun.

Ruski i shoot for myself, but i have shot with SAPS and the SANDF in the past, if i get an opportunity to waste some government ammo at a shoot i jump at the chance. 3 gun does get a little pricey so reloading becomes a necessity but once you have the presses the cost is manageable. There is a national pistol shoot on the 17th at the False Bay range if you feel like watching the top guys in SA battle it out.

I would like a silencer but i have ordered some other toys today for my LM so it'll have to waite.

[lcastillo]

Ruski & Ady I am sure this R5 thread appreciates your input especially with the vast knowledge you 2 present. Lou

[lcastillo]

Ruski & Adipose,
I am close to purchasing a SAR parts kit from APEX. I have enjoyed talking with you guys so much that I have decided to turn this parts kit into a R5 build. I know that some parts will be hard to get. Adipose, I know this question is more directed towards you. What will be the hardest parts to get for a R5 build?

Also, My Century arms Golani Sporter came with a South African stock, I did buy the Golani used and I am not sure if this was the stock that came with from Century originally or if the last owner added it. I am hoping to switch stocks on the parts kit since it comes with a steel stock. What are the correct dimensions of the R5 stock? Do I have the correct stock for the build. I am not quite sure where to start to measure correct size. Should I measure at the start of the knuckle of the folder or just the stock portion after the knickle. Here are some pictures with the tape measurer next to the stock! Thanks Lou

[lcastillo]

one more picture

[mrf2]

That is the correct stock. The length is only an issue if someone cut the stock down (which you can do with that stock fairly easily). The early R4/5/6 came with the standard (shorter) Galil metal stock (note the first few posts in this thread) and some users perfered that stock and kept it as long as they could.

As for the hard parts to get; how accurate do you want your clone to be? You will have a hard time finding the right gas tube and SA made bolt. Depending on what gas block you get with your kit you may be set or you may have to find a replacement (no bayonet lug, check the first page for detailed pictures, or ruski's field stripped rifle pictures). The proper rear handguard retainer will also be very hard to find. There was one on gunbroker for a while but I suspect it is gone now. An R5 is easier to clone than an R4.

[lcastillo]

Mrf2, Thanks for the input, I figured that the hardest part would be the gas tube. I guess I can live without the bolt in a worst case scenario. I'm hoping maybe I get a SA bolt with my parts kit since I got lucky with the stock (won't hold my breath). I believe I have located and secured a gas block with a bayonet so I might be in luck there. You threw me a new one with the handguard retainer?!? Did not think of that one. Thanks to Ruski's pictures I have a gentleman that will laser engrave the SAPS logo and serial numbers as seen on Ruski's R5 to reflect the new markings. Thanks Again

[Ugh!]

Depends how close you want to get. The guide vanes on a South African gas piston are longer than an IMI one, the welds are different on the topcover.

I'd say at a minimum you would need the rear handguard retainer, gas block, gas tube, front site hood, front site post, and folding stock

For the correct rear handguard retainer contact ontario guns in Canada, ontgun1@yahoo.com

John Yuzamas has the front site post http://www.24hourtactical.com/Galil-...st-GALR4SP.htm

The rest just keep watching the for sale sites, they pop up occassionally.

Good luck!

[ruski5181]

Wow Ugh! most of the stuff you mentioned is the stuff we try change for SACRA, lol, front hood, we try find the smaller galil ring, front post we try find the thinner needle style post, gas tube and cover plate are both non serialised items here so you shouldnt have a hassle picking up those parts.

[Ugh!]

Wow Ugh! most of the stuff you mentioned is the stuff we try change for SACRA, lol, front hood, we try find the smaller galil ring, front post we try find the thinner needle style post, gas tube and cover plate are both non serialised items here so you shouldnt have a hassle picking up those parts.

That is pretty funny. Interesting about the front site post, I thought the thinner post was standard issue on the R4/R5/R6.

I saw on Gunsite that there is bunch of R4 folding stocks being manufactured in varying lengths by the original manufacturer. I have not heard if they are ready yet.

Ruski or Ady - any recommendations on where to get parts? I've contacted Nobelteq and they didn't seem interested. Also what parts are not exportable based on South African law?

[adipose]

Lou,
You have the correct length stock. If you are going forward with a build; I'd put that one on and put a standard one on your Golani.Everyone above aready gave you an idea on the hard to get parts. The rear handguard holder would be easy.

Ugh, already told me about the guy in Canada; and Tenngalil and I bought the remaining 18 he had (he wanted to get rid of them and I worked out a price).

Personally, I would get a blank sided .223 receiver from CNC Warrior and have Jeff do a double lightning cut. I got him a good cutter last year in making this easier. I know the early R5 had an Izzy receiver; but I seen more R4's with them and I think it looks totally cool with the cuts.

I assume your going to have him do a build? He can make you a gastube that looks very real. The bolt and top cover; do have some differences (I have them on my builds), but that would be the least of my concern in getting a build going.

You also mentioned you might be able to get a gasblock w/ bayo lug; again; that is the wrong one. Barrel; I assume you are going to SBR? I think you mentioned the Replibic of Iowa doesn't allow them. Just have to get creative on your extended FH in blending it in for the R5 look.

Remember; this will be a small investment for the project; but it is very worth it in making it the best you can! So; when are you going to get started?

Ruski, Ugh is right about the thinner post being from SA.

Ady aboard and look very forward to your input from SA; just like Ruski who has already been a big help.

[adipose]

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/59567...H_WAR_ERA.html 50 round metal mag for sale,

Ruski, could you get this mag for me and I'll send you money or a new R4 wide sling? I already have a few 50 rounders; but it would be nice to use it in my R5; since it would come from SA, it has wear on it and I can paint it like the ones in this picture.

I'll send you a email. Remember; I still want to send you a orlite magazine to try out.

Oh ya; if you do bid on it; he also has a old vinyl record from "Mungo Jerry's Greatist Hits"; remember him! For only R20. Can you get that also? Just kidding

[Ady]

Hi Ugh, i was going to suggest you contact Nobelteq for spares. I had a chat with Peet (Father) and he was very helpful. I baught some spares a couple of weeks ago from them, i did try and get a exploded diagram from him some years ago and he wasn't very helpful then, but just keep trying. I found Peet alot more helpful than Lukas (Son). I don't know anyone else who has spares. I have built up my own little stash for future use when spares are no longer available. I did however pick up a article on the net some time ago (i dont have a link) where the government was spending some money on refurbishing their stocks of R4 / 5 rifles so perhaps spares will be made by littleton and perhaps become available again, but i think african time takes precedant here.

Thanks adipose, if i can be of any help i will try. I know what its like to battle getting info and spares for my baby.

[lcastillo]

Ruski5181, Hey I went on that website to see if there where any other goodies for Galil. I about fell out of my chair when I saw the UTG rail for 1,400.00 Rand! That is about $184.84 USD talk about "ripping your lips off" sheesh! I purchased mine for $56.00 USD with free shipping. Check with me or the other guys here if you need to make any purchases like that I sure we can find a way to help. http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/60339...il_System.html

[lcastillo]

Hi Ugh, i was going to suggest you contact Nobelteq for spares. I had a chat with Peet (Father) and he was very helpful. I baught some spares a couple of weeks ago from them, i did try and get a exploded diagram from him some years ago and he wasn't very helpful then, but just keep trying. I found Peet alot more helpful than Lukas (Son). I don't know anyone else who has spares. I have built up my own little stash for future use when spares are no longer available. I did however pick up a article on the net some time ago (i dont have a link) where the government was spending some money on refurbishing their stocks of R4 / 5 rifles so perhaps spares will be made by littleton and perhaps become available again, but i think african time takes precedant here.

Thanks adipose, if i can be of any help i will try. I know what its like to battle getting info and spares for my baby.

Ady, I was curious do you have any idea what all the marking on R series rifles mean. I am looking at the proof marks like the P within a circle. Many here believe it means Pretoria factory. Is there any source there in SA that might provide any information? Thanks Lou

[Ady]

Ugh, from what i understand you can export anything from SA, EXCEPT for parts that have serial numbers on them, same with importing, but the wheels fall off with the exporting country not wanting to export.

Lou, i honestly don't know. As far as i know the rifles both R and LM series were manufactured by Lyttelton Engineering works under license from Vektor. I tried to do some research (My LM5 has the LEW markings on the reciver) and had a chat with a guy who works for Denel Land Systems (Used to be Vektor) some years ago. He told me that the majority of the guys who worked on the R and LM series project have left for greener pastures or retired and taken all their knowledge with them. Those that are still with Denel would have no clue as it was during the 80's. I found a ex SADF gun smith who worked on and repaired R 4 / 5 rifles and he wasn't much help either. I will do some more enquiries but i hit a dead end before.

[Ady]

Ruski5181, Hey I went on that website to see if there where any other goodies for Galil. I about fell out of my chair when I saw the UTG rail for 1,400.00 Rand! That is about $184.84 USD talk about "ripping your lips off" sheesh! I purchased mine for $56.00 USD with free shipping. Check with me or the other guys here if you need to make any purchases like that I sure we can find a way to help. http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/60339...il_System.html

Thats still cheap, a FAB alluminium rail (VFR-GA) goes for R5332.00 about $670 excluding postage.

[lcastillo]

Lou,
You have the correct length stock. If you are going forward with a build; I'd put that one on and put a standard one on your Golani.Everyone above aready gave you an idea on the hard to get parts. The rear handguard holder would be easy.

Ugh, already told me about the guy in Canada; and Tenngalil and I bought the remaining 18 he had (he wanted to get rid of them and I worked out a price).

Personally, I would get a blank sided .223 receiver from CNC Warrior and have Jeff do a double lightning cut. I got him a good cutter last year in making this easier. I know the early R5 had an Izzy receiver; but I seen more R4's with them and I think it looks totally cool with the cuts.

I assume your going to have him do a build? He can make you a gastube that looks very real. The bolt and top cover; do have some differences (I have them on my builds), but that would be the least of my concern in getting a build going.

You also mentioned you might be able to get a gasblock w/ bayo lug; again; that is the wrong one. Barrel; I assume you are going to SBR? I think you mentioned the Replibic of Iowa doesn't allow them. Just have to get creative on your extended FH in blending it in for the R5 look.

Remember; this will be a small investment for the project; but it is very worth it in making it the best you can! So; when are you going to get started?

Ruski, Ugh is right about the thinner post being from SA.

Ady aboard and look very forward to your input from SA; just like Ruski who has already been a big help.

Thanks Adipose, I guess I feel lucky I have a SA stock. That itself would have been a hurdle in doing a build. I am committed to doing the build and yes I will most likley have Jeff build it. I will keep an eye out for a CNC Warrior reciever or get on the next build list. I am in on the double lightning cut. Ruski noted to me that he could get Gas tubes since they not serialized items so I might strike up a deal with him for that. The gas block my brother bought for me in Honduras it has the lug on it. The correct one is the without the bayonet? So do I need to strike up a deal with you or Jeff on a rear retainer ?

As far as the SBR goes I hope to add the extended muzzle break on a 13" barrel to make it the 16" legal. You ask me when the project starts? NOW! my man!

[lcastillo]

Thats still cheap, a FAB alluminium rail (VFR-GA) goes for R5332.00 about $670 excluding postage.

Ady the Fab rail seems to be more in line with pricing. If I paid $70.00 a UTG rail that would still be tooo expensive. I thought maybe it was the conversion rate but I think that seller might be ask more than what it is worth. I shipped some goods to Ruski and the package with first class postage was only $12.00 USD so I estimate $65.00 for UTG rail + $12.00 USD = $77.00 sending it to SA Vs. $184.84. I know you guys have the hurdle of buying stuff in the US like NVG and Scopes. Do you think this guy had to pay extra for any paperwork for a UTG rail to ask that price?

[ruski5181]

Hey guys, Adipose, my current bid is sitting at $35 USD, let me know if thats ok with you.
Lou, we work on about 8 as a fixed rate of exchange, helps us deal with market fluctuations etc.... but paying $175 on bid or buy for something i just paid $35 for.... thats how the guys here roll unfortunately! Ady, that FAB, I.. i wish i had your kinda money.. my word!
Nobelteq arent great at communicating with individuals, i sent them loads of mails, no replies. we use our SACRA board to contact them for rifles etc. There are gun shops who you can deal through who won't rip you off. im gonna go see one just now.

[ruski5181]

These guys are insane.... http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...0-Lm5-for-sale http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...ul-M5-for-sale they want R16K and 14.5K. Please tell me you guys pay less for these rifles!