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Thread: Mini Uzi - Questions

  1. #1
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    Mini Uzi - Questions

    I've been reading up on the main page and have a few questions.

    1) What is the best configuration?
    a. Open Bolt
    b. Closed Bolt

    2) Which of the above are available for the different manufaturers? i.e., I.M.I., Vector, etc

    3) Are "sear" guns the most desireable? If not, why?

    I would assume that a registered receiver would be the way to go, but which configuration would a registered receiver be, an open or closed bolt? I also would imagine that an open bolt would less troublesome as they appear to have less parts.

    I think I mentioned it before, but I'm more of an M16 guy, but as prices continue to fall, I'm trying to jump on the next available thing in my want list and want to be informed before hand.

    Thanks in advance,
    Scott

  2. #2
    Registered User gundisaster's Avatar
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    Open bolt for sure. Closed bolt is insanely fast. You can play with the RPM's in open bolt, make it even slower with a heavy bolt from Barrelxchange.

    You have IMI and Vector, that's about it.

    If you want an IMI then you are going to have to find one of those sears, or it's going to be a registered bolt gun.

    I think registered reciever Vector Mini UZI is the way to go You can use the heavy bolt, or .22lr kit, or other calibers and replace parts.

  3. #3
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    So, from what I understand, the only registered receiver open bolt IMI UZIs are sear guns? I guess it's a one in a million shot to find an Open bolt sear IMI?

    So, I'll focus on the Vector. Are there any particular things to look for in a Vector reg rec? Things to avoid?

  4. #4
    Registered User gundisaster's Avatar
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    You have Registered Receiver UZI's, where the receiver is the machine gun.
    You have Registered Sear UZI's, where the trigger pack is the machine gun.
    You have Registered Bolt UZI's, where the bolt is the machine gun.

    There are no Registered Receiver IMI Mini UZI's since they were all imported after the machine gun ban. However when using a Registered sear or bolt, then you can use one for a machine gun host.

    There are Registered Receiver Vector Mini UZI's, they are cut down full size group industry receivers. I think this is a good route to go.

    Should check out the UZI library, lots of info there:

    http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/p...sions_mini.htm

    http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/minimain.htm

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundisaster
    You have Registered Sear UZI's, where the trigger pack is the machine gun.
    That is NOT correct.
    It is the COMBINATION of the grandfathered RECEIVER and the SEAR that makes it a MG in the case of the early Fleming Sear Mini UZI's. Now there are LaFrance UZI conversions which some refer to as a trigger pack but again, those consisted of:
    1. modified lower
    2. modified bolt
    3. short barrel

    This question comes up quite a bit and is totally subjective.
    I personally prefer the Fleming Sears that are married to the receiver and have the modified trunion as the receiver is perfect and can take or be made to take all standard Mini parts legally.

    I would secondly choose a Vector Mini for the abiltiy to swap bolts. In my experience it is a gamble with the Vector Mini's. I know several people that have them. Most of them run well. I know at least 3 people that have lemons. All have sent them back to Vector and they still don't run right.
    2 of the 3 guys finally sold them off.

    Due to the rarity of the Fleming's, the Vector is the most common choice.

  6. #6
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    Just to set the record straight, as there has been a certain amount of INCORRECT information posted about Fleming Mini Uzi sear guns on this forum lately...

    Bill and I perused this forum together last weekend. He was quite amused at the "experts" pontificating on HIS work.

    Bill Fleming NEVER modified a Mini Uzi trunnion.
    He always contoured the bolt feet to pass.

    Any Mini Uzi receivers with modified trunnions were NOT modified by him. There was no legal issue in doing so, as his initial ATF approval letter attests. His decision to contour the bolts was purely out of convenience.

    Someone mentioned the bolts being "married"...this was also in error. The reason for the bolts being serial numbered was to ensure they stayed with the gun. The modified bolt would be an NFA item, and post 86 as well. The paperwork on the guns does not reference the bolt; only the sear and receiver.

    Thus, a Fleming registered sear receiver may be modified by relieving the trunnion. The bolt feet may be welded up to specs. The bolt could even be replaced by a factory IMI or Group bolt, but the modified bolt would have to be welded up, or destroyed FIRST before proceeding. The IMI bolt would also require further modification to clear the bbl. ring. The Group bolts were already relieved, which is why Bill tended to use Group bolts in both his Mini and Full size Uzi conversions.

    As a side note, the information proffered as to serial numbers vs. production was also in error. Bill kept meticulous notes and knows exactly how many were produced and entered into the Registry. I am not at liberty to discuss his numbering system, but I can set the record straight on quantity. There were exactly 100 Fleming Mini Uzi sear guns allowed to remain. The remaining number of sears, and it was originally much, much higher, were deleted by ATF. There was a long "discussion" between Fleming and ATF before the final figure of 100 guns was agreed to.

    In closing, if someone wanted to have the absolute closest thing to a Post 86 sample Mini Uzi, that was fully transferable to an individual on a Form 4, it would be a Fleming sear gun, AFTER trunnion and bolt modification.

    Good luck.

    Jack007
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do NOTHING!"
    Edmund Burke 1729-1797

  7. #7
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    So many, mini Uzis.

  8. #8
    Registered User gundisaster's Avatar
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    Hmm interesting information about the Fleming sears, thanks, learn something new everyday right.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack007
    Just to set the record straight, as there has been a certain amount of INCORRECT information posted about Fleming Mini Uzi sear guns on this forum lately...

    Bill and I perused this forum together last weekend. He was quite amused at the "experts" pontificating on HIS work.

    Bill Fleming NEVER modified a Mini Uzi trunnion.
    He always contoured the bolt feet to pass.

    Any Mini Uzi receivers with modified trunnions were NOT modified by him. There was no legal issue in doing so, as his initial ATF approval letter attests. His decision to contour the bolts was purely out of convenience.

    Someone mentioned the bolts being "married"...this was also in error. The reason for the bolts being serial numbered was to ensure they stayed with the gun. The modified bolt would be an NFA item, and post 86 as well. The paperwork on the guns does not reference the bolt; only the sear and receiver.

    Thus, a Fleming registered sear receiver may be modified by relieving the trunnion. The bolt feet may be welded up to specs. The bolt could even be replaced by a factory IMI or Group bolt, but the modified bolt would have to be welded up, or destroyed FIRST before proceeding. The IMI bolt would also require further modification to clear the bbl. ring. The Group bolts were already relieved, which is why Bill tended to use Group bolts in both his Mini and Full size Uzi conversions.

    As a side note, the information proffered as to serial numbers vs. production was also in error. Bill kept meticulous notes and knows exactly how many were produced and entered into the Registry. I am not at liberty to discuss his numbering system, but I can set the record straight on quantity. There were exactly 100 Fleming Mini Uzi sear guns allowed to remain. The remaining number of sears, and it was originally much, much higher, were deleted by ATF. There was a long "discussion" between Fleming and ATF before the final figure of 100 guns was agreed to.

    In closing, if someone wanted to have the absolute closest thing to a Post 86 sample Mini Uzi, that was fully transferable to an individual on a Form 4, it would be a Fleming sear gun, AFTER trunnion and bolt modification.

    Good luck.

    Jack007
    That is great info!! However that is not what Bill told me in emails back around late 2003 or early 2004. Unfortunately, I never saved the emails from back then. I've changed computers a lot since then. The information about the serial numbers sequencing I was guessing since I had only been able to ever see in total 3 Mini sear guns including my own.
    But the information regarding him modifying the trunions is what he told me in the emails as well as removing the rail from the full size receivers. I have also noted many times here the he used the Group bolts since they did not require to clearance the bolt to clear the ring.

    What you state about being able to modify the trunion and bolt or destroy the bolt all sound great but that it is unfortunately inconsistent from what we have been hearing from the ATF. In this ATF Letter: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/...f_letter46.txt
    regarding a full size UZI that was converted using a slotted bolt. You CANNOT remove the rail and ditch the bolt as you say you could do on a MINI.
    We have discussed here for years as what the ATF determines the making of a MG on the Full size UZI and Mini UZI. From the ATF letters we have seen it seems that it consists of 1 of the following for a full size UZ.
    1. removing the rail
    2. slotting a full size Open bolt so you don't have to remove the rail

    As you know, the Mini doesn't have a rail, it just has the trunion which stops you from dropping an open bolt into semi Mini receiver. So just like the above for a full size, you have two options for an open bolt Mini.
    1. modify the trunion
    2. relieve the feet on a standard open bolt.

    Again this is consistent with what Bill emailed me around 5 years ago and it is logically consistent with the ATF views on the full size. But we all know the ATF is not consistent.

    If you are in contact with Bill, see if you can get him to dig up a copy of the ATF letter and make a copy for us. We would all love to see it. I also have not heard how his wife is doing and please wish him and his family the best from us.
    I recall him telling me in emails that he was going to come out with a book regarding his conversions and gun business history which I thought would be awesome and told him that I would be definitely interested in getting that book. Has he mentioned the progress of that to you?
    He also told me he made some Mini's from full size's by chopping them down and re-welding them like Vector did. As well as doing some Micro's.

  10. #10
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    Amphibian:
    Yes, Bill was working on the book, but as you mentioned, his wife's health is now priority number one.
    I'm sure he'd be grateful to know your concern...she's actually doing a little better. Its still a daily battle as you can well imagine. After almost 40 years of marriage, I guess you don't give up easily. Bill Fleming is first and foremost a family man.

    As far as the approval letter, I don't know how he'd feel about my reproducing it online. I'll check.

    Jack007
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do NOTHING!"
    Edmund Burke 1729-1797

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