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Thread: PROJECT: Building a classic style MAC Operational Briefcase

  1. #141
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    Another M11/9 (no suppressor, Lage grip) operational briefcase being built for a member here. The suede interior's maroon color on this one gives it a different, almost ominous look. I like it.

    I've still got to add the usual trigger mechanism, and top panel hold-downs, spent-case diverter and spare mag holders, but I thought I'd share a preview.

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  2. #142
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    Finished the maroon case for the M11/9 (Lage grip, no suppressor) over the weekend... ready for a range trip for functional test.

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  3. #143
    Registered User Schnitzeraffe's Avatar
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    Nice work as usual!

  4. #144
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    Tested today - no problems.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ2PkZesHa0


  5. #145
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    Sweet!
    I like the color.
    Please visit my FB page for the latest CF-W bolt information.
    https://www.facebook.com/VegasSMG/?ref

  6. #146
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    Very cool. You did a great job.

    I still want to finish my laptop case version this summer.

  7. #147
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    Very nice.

  8. #148
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    Well, I had a surprise visit from my local ATF guy this week. When I was at the range doing that last test, someone there apparently reported the "automatic briefcase"! When the report finally made it through the BATFE channels and got down to the local agent, he came by to check if it was me as he had expected... and he had the biggest and most visually intimidating enforcement agent with him that I've ever encountered -- we joked about him being the" bodyguard". My local guy had already seen my ops briefcases and NFA items on previous visits (I work at an FFL/SOT) and it was absolutely no problem. I keep copies of all my Form 4s at the office. The guys said all was fine and they were just following up as required.

    There *are* some very nice and helpful folks at the ATF... this guy has been a pleasure to work with. The enforcement guy I hadn't met before was also very pleasant and a "gun guy" himself... I let him watch a video of one of my briefcase tests and we had a nice visit.

  9. #149
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    I hope the complainant was there to steam in your revelry.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
    Well, I had a surprise visit from my local ATF guy this week. When I was at the range doing that last test, someone there apparently reported the "automatic briefcase"! When the report finally made it through the BATFE channels and got down to the local agent, he came by to check if it was me as he had expected... and he had the biggest and most visually intimidating enforcement agent with him that I've ever encountered -- we joked about him being the" bodyguard". My local guy had already seen my ops briefcases and NFA items on previous visits (I work at an FFL/SOT) and it was absolutely no problem. I keep copies of all my Form 4s at the office. The guys said all was fine and they were just following up as required.

    There *are* some very nice and helpful folks at the ATF... this guy has been a pleasure to work with. The enforcement guy I hadn't met before was also very pleasant and a "gun guy" himself... I let him watch a video of one of my briefcase tests and we had a nice visit.
    Was the visit to confirm that the cases you're buliding had been approved as AOWs or what was the visit for?

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    Was the visit to confirm that the cases you're buliding had been approved as AOWs or what was the visit for?
    Their visit was to confirm that the case was used with a registered machinegun.

    We did indeed discuss that I was aware that the cases can not be used with a semi gun without registration as an AOW.

    The cases themselves when used with a machinegun (or maybe ever) do not need to be registered... they are not the (or not a) weapon.
    Last edited by Concorde; 06-06-2013 at 09:35 AM.

  12. #152
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    The case being registered as a AOW thing is a gray area. I have personally seen determination letters that conflict on the topic. It is generally excepted that if a Title I firearm is used, the firearm needs to be registered as an AOW. If a SMG/MG is used the case does not need to be registered as a AOW.

    It's best not to ask for clarification since the determination letters are only useful for the individuals that asked for them. These letters can also be deemed invalid by the the organization that issues them at a moments notice. If you had to protect yourself in a court anyway, it would be make for a legal and civil nightmare.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by strobro32 View Post
    It is generally excepted that if a Title I firearm is used, the firearm needs to be registered as an AOW. If a SMG/MG is used the case does not need to be registered as a AOW.
    My understanding is that if a Title I firearm is used in it, the firearm itself has to be registered as an AOW. The case is not a weapon in itself. But as you say, interpretation in that gray area can vary. I agree it's best to not go there. Stay full auto!!!!

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
    Their visit was to confirm that the case was used with a registered machinegun. We did indeed discuss that I was aware that the cases can not be used with a semi gun without registration as an AOW. The cases themselves when used with a machinegun (or maybe ever) do not need to be registered... they are not the (or not a) weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by strobro32 View Post
    The case being registered as a AOW thing is a gray area. I have personally seen determination letters that conflict on the topic. It is generally excepted that if a Title I firearm is used, the firearm needs to be registered as an AOW. If a SMG/MG is used the case does not need to be registered as a AOW.

    It's best not to ask for clarification since the determination letters are only useful for the individuals that asked for them. These letters can also be deemed invalid by the the organization that issues them at a moments notice. If you had to protect yourself in a court anyway, it would be make for a legal and civil nightmare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
    My understanding is that if a Title I firearm is used in it, the firearm itself has to be registered as an AOW. The case is not a weapon in itself. But as you say, interpretation in that gray area can vary. I agree it's best to not go there. Stay full auto!!!!
    Thanks for the clarification gentlemen. I had (incorrectly) always thought that it was the briefcase and not the Title I firearm that needed to be registered as an AOW. That is clearly not the case. (pun intended).


    ...and NICE WORK Concord! I have been watching this thread with great interest since its inception. It is great to see someone complete a project like this with such great success!

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    I had (incorrectly) always thought that it was the briefcase and not the Title I firearm that needed to be registered as an AOW.
    It certainly CAN be confusing! The actual gun is the weapon -- and the briefcase alone is not a weapon -- but the addition of the operational briefcase to a semi-auto pistol transforms that pistol into an AOW weapon, just like any alteration or addition to the pistol (such as a shoulder stock or foregrip) that results in a weapon that falls under NFA definitions.

    ...and NICE WORK Concord! I have been watching this thread with great interest since its inception. It is great to see someone complete a project like this with such great success!
    And thank you for the kind words!

  16. #156
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    Confusing indeed but all makes sense when explained correctly as you and Strobro32 have. The Operationa Briefcase is a pretty hot topic amongst HK folks, of which I am one, and so the subject comes up frequently on other boards focused on that platform. I understand now.

    Looks like I should get rid of my semi-auto Leinad M-11/NINE before I consider tinkering with a project like this...

    Thanks, and YOU'RE WELCOME!

  17. #157
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    That also means that if you can fire a pistol from a holster, the pistol is classified as an AOW and needs to be registered. I was going to buy a holster like that for my Kel-Tec a few years ago and then the seller pulled the holsters. Found out the ATF gave him a call and he had to get back all the holsters he sold.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
    Well, I had a surprise visit from my local ATF guy this week. When I was at the range doing that last test, someone there apparently reported the "automatic briefcase"! When the report finally made it through the BATFE channels and got down to the local agent, he came by to check if it was me as he had expected... and he had the biggest and most visually intimidating enforcement agent with him that I've ever encountered -- we joked about him being the" bodyguard". My local guy had already seen my ops briefcases and NFA items on previous visits (I work at an FFL/SOT) and it was absolutely no problem. I keep copies of all my Form 4s at the office. The guys said all was fine and they were just following up as required.

    There *are* some very nice and helpful folks at the ATF... this guy has been a pleasure to work with. The enforcement guy I hadn't met before was also very pleasant and a "gun guy" himself... I let him watch a video of one of my briefcase tests and we had a nice visit.
    I'm my personal opinion who ever called to have you checked out should have minded their own business, they were obviously ignorant of the facts. That would make me mad, when I go to the range and shoot my FA everybody stares at me but if people happen to ask me about FAs being illegal I kindly tell them is registered according to NFA and I have paper work.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt.kline View Post
    I'm my personal opinion who ever called to have you checked out should have minded their own business, they were obviously ignorant of the facts.
    I'm sure some casual shooter not educated in weapons thought they were being a "good citizen" when they made the report to the ATF... better safe than sorry and I'm not offended.

    I don't look like a scary guy (most of the time) and usually I get people coming over to ask friendly questions and shoot the breeze while looking over what I've been shooting.

  20. #160
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    "good citizen" Heck, you were shooting a full auto and he was worried about the case?

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