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Thread: Ptr PDW -91 sbr Question

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    Registered User Harley-MAC's Avatar
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    Ptr PDW -91 sbr Question

    I was thinking about buying one of these and short barreling it. My question is when i get stamp back is it as easy as just replacing the endcap with a butt stock and have all proper markings per atf rule placed on the barrel or what is required when just replacing the end cap on a pistol rifle concerning markings or is the end cap a special one that requires smithing to get a factory butt stock to work on it?

  2. #2
    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    You need to add the new stock to the endcap you already have on that gun. The recoil assembly is different than a full sized rifle, but I heard RTG sold this recoil assembly now?
    Why don't you just get Jeff Walters to make you a PDW? PTR stuff can be hit and miss. Last I heard, PTR is having problems with the trunnions and boltheads cracking on some of the products they sell

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    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    Don't be scared away by the above comment. PTR-91 products are as good or better than HK as the parts are all new MFG with some parts being CNC'd to more exact tollerances (not available when the G3 was designed and came to market) and the others are made on original HK tooling from the old FMP factory in Portugal. If you want to use an G3A3 type collapsible stock, Hogue PDW stock or even a full stock for example, then you will need to transfer the PTR recoil rod from the pistol endcap over to the G3 stock. They are pinned in, but the can be removed and tac welded back in place. The more expensive alternative is to do what Hart is suggesting above.
    Last edited by jurist; 09-28-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  4. #4
    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurist View Post
    Don't be scared away by the above comment. PTR-91 products are as good or better than HK as the parts are all new MFG with some parts being CNC'd to more exact tollerances (not available when the G3 was designed and came to market) and the others are made on original HK tooling from the old FMP factory in Portugal. If you want to use an G3A3 type collapsible stock, Hogue PDW stock or even a full stock for example, then you will need to transfer the PTR recoil rod from the pistol endcap over to the G3 stock. They are pinned in, but the can be removed and tac welded back in place. The more expensive alternative is to do what Hart is suggesting above.

    I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you need to read more about the metallurgy problems PTR has been having before giving someone the wrong advice. I know most of the roller locker weapons inside and out and the problems with clone models.

    I think a Google search is in order.
    Search for "ptr 91 cracked trunnion" Bunches of stories, this one has pics.
    http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-clone-...cracked-2.html

    "ptr 91 cracked bolthead" Bunches of stories, this one has pics.
    http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-clone-...d-failure.html

    Don't cut off the recoil rod from the factory endcap, just remove that stupid buffer cover PTR made and add a stock, or order an extra setup from RTG
    http://www.robertrtg.com/hk51recoil.html

    My friend Chuck that used to work for Vector makes these recoil setups also. The last one I bought cost me $70
    This is his e-mail mrhustler@comcast.net

    Give Jeff a call and ask him about his prices. He used to build clones that cost less than PTR weapons for HKPRO members.
    They weren't safe queen quality though, but he guaranteed them to shoot.
    http://www.hkpro.com/forum/parabellu...o-menbers.html

    Jeff Walters
    http://www.prusikusa.com/
    918-696-8715
    918-781-3939

    P.S. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to push for Jeff to do you a build. Heck we had a falling out and don't even talk to each other anymore.
    I will tell you this though. I've had two 51's aka PDW's and had all kinds of problems with U.S. made trunnions in them. It was so bad, "I'll NEVER" own another!!!!!

    I've had a few roller lockers in my time. lol





    Last edited by HART1; 09-30-2012 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Added info

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    Trust Hart. He knows what he is talking about. As for 308 PDW, I have a 51k, that Jeff built me, they can be finicky, but Jeff got it working right. It's a real croud pleaser on FA but other than that it's not good for muck of anything else.

    Jeff

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    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    Jeff,
    Thank you sir.
    I also had a 51K, but traded it to Will for an AK. They sure are fun to shoot!

  7. #7
    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    Not intending to offend anyone , but:
    I honestly don't see your point. I've owned FA factory MP5K, MP5SD, MP5A3, several HK91s. I've also shot a number of HK51 conversions and have owned or shot numerous clones. The PTR-91 line of products is generally exceptional and where there have been problems they've been addressed. I've read your online source materials and can honestly say working in the firearms industry for years that this scientific analysis is bullshit to the point of hilarity. The fact that some idiot (don't know him/sure he's a great guy) has decided that he can take one trunnion from each of the major clone manufacturers and test them and declare that they are all defective and as such all HK clones in the US are defective is HILARIOUS. The fact is there have been thousands upon thousands of these rifles sold and a very very small percentage of them have had any issues and those that have arisen have been addressed. There is a known bad batch of PTR-91 bolts from a couple years ago. Big freaking deal. Bolt gets replaced and you're on your way. I should also point out that years ago when I got my second NIB HK91 it went back to HK several times for problems with feeding before it was replaced with no explanation. I later had serious quality control issues with an HK USP Tactical. Big deal occasionally there are problems but generally with any quality product they are few and far between and are corrected by good manufacturers when they arise.
    Last edited by jurist; 10-08-2012 at 04:11 PM.

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    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurist View Post
    I honestly don't see your point. I've owned FA factory MP5K, MP5SD, MP5A3, several HK91s. I've also shot a number of HK51 conversions and have owned or shot numerous clones. The PTR-91 line of products is generally exceptional and where there have been problems they've been addressed. I've read your online source materials and can honestly say working in the firearms industry for years that this scientific analysis is bullshit to the point of hilarity. The fact that some idiot (don't know him/sure he's a great guy) has decided that he can take one trunnion from each of the major clone manufacturers and test them and declare that they are all defective and as such all HK clones in the US are defective is HILARIOUS. The fact is there have been thousands upon thousands of these rifles sold and a very very small percentage of them have had any issues and those that have arisen have been addressed. There is a known bad batch of PTR-91 bolts from a couple years ago. Big freaking deal. Bolt gets replaced and you're on your way. I should also point out that years ago when I got my second NIB HK91 it went back to HK several times for problems with feeding before it was replaced with no explanation. I later had serious quality control issues with an HK USP Tactical. Big deal occasionally there are problems but generally with any quality product they are few and far between and are corrected by good manufacturers when they arise.
    I'm sorry you feel that way and I mean no offence to you, but I'm sticking to what I said before.
    I even had a JLD rifle with a canted barrel. I told one of the so called engineers about my rifle shootiing 3 foot left at 100 years "with a scope" and he wanted to bend my front sight to adjust the point of impact. What a joke! How's that going to help?
    Then I started loosing 0.001 bolt gap with every 100 rounds fired. They wouldn't fix the problem and changed the name to PTR.
    This name change screwed all of us that wanted our weapons fixed.
    What about the shallow flutes in the AW guns? (I refluted many of those barrels) Didn't they change the name to PTR91 Inc after that? I can't remember for sure?
    Last edited by HART1; 10-07-2012 at 02:08 PM.

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    So,.....back to the orginial question. What needs to be done to add a butt stock to the PTR PDW. I'm also interested in this conversion. I don't need the BATF requirements, I have several SBR's.

    edit to add....never mind, found the parts needed, thanks.
    Last edited by dtom29; 10-07-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    If you want to use an G3A3 type collapsible stock, Hogue PDW stock or even a full stock for example, then you will need to transfer the PTR recoil rod from the pistol endcap over to the G3 stock. They are pinned in, but the can be removed and tac welded back in place. You can also buy a whole new assembly as suggested above.

  11. #11
    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    Hart:
    I would suggested that if there were features on a gun when you purchased it that you were not pleased with the solution would have been to 1) not buy the gun or 2) request that the mfg or have a smith upgrade it to your specs.

  12. #12
    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    1. Bought the gun from Atlantic Firearms. It was shipped to me, sight unseen.
    2. I wouldn't call a new rifle shooting 3 foot to the left as being up to anyone's specs. I did send it back for repair, only to have it come back with more trunnion problems that they didn't want to fix.

    I'm not going to start a debate on this subject. These are the problems I've had and have seen others have akso. Take it for what it's worth.

  13. #13
    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    Like I said, I've never heard of a warranty issue that was not corrected by PTR91. Likewise Atlantic Firearms has excellent customer service. Not to start a debate with you but I expect if you'd called them with the issue they would have helped you with the manufacturer. I suspect you clearly didn't talk to or deal with the correct person at JLD. Sounds like it could have also been an issue with your scope or mount if the rifle passed inspection. Regardless no reason to debate a company that is no longer around officially.

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    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    I delt with Victor. Back in the JLD day's, he was the top dog.
    I truly believe PTR fucked the people that they sold the AW serial number guns to, and I'll never change my mind. I fixed many of those shallow flute barrels to not know what I'm talking about.
    A.F. just the rifle to me, and they don't have anything to do with the warranty. I have no compaints with them. Besides, I have Blaine Buntings cell number.
    Scope mount was a factory mount that works perfect on my other weapons. I still have it.
    I know the company isn't around anymore. Well to be honest, it really is, but they started doing the Todd B. name change game. I think they are on there 3rd name change now?
    I've tried to go out of my way to explain these problems. I know the rifle was wrong, I'm far from a novice when it comes to these weapons.
    Can we just move on? I'm done with this subject.
    I like you SLR-106UR and have one like it myself.

  15. #15
    Registered User jurist's Avatar
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    Thanks. I'm trying to find a good way to mount my 762SDN6 to the SLR106UR. I haven't decided if I should cut part of the Bulgarian front sight base back to just where the threads start so I can use both the Bulgarian muzzle attachments and can thread the underlying barrel 1/2x28. Or if I should weld an AAC Brakeout to one of CNCWarrior's 24mm to 1/2x28 adapters and cut a custom tab in the adapter to keep it from unthreading. I don't like the idea of an adapter connecting to a quick detach flash hider. On the plus side I confirmed the 24mm threads on this SLR106 are concentric to the bore.

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    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    I'm not sure? Only been into AK's for a couple of years now. Mine is sitting in the corner. Every time I go to the range for weapons testing, I never take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HART1 View Post
    You need to add the new stock to the endcap you already have on that gun. The recoil assembly is different than a full sized rifle, but I heard RTG sold this recoil assembly now?
    Why don't you just get Jeff Walters to make you a PDW? PTR stuff can be hit and miss. Last I heard, PTR is having problems with the trunnions and boltheads cracking on some of the products they sell
    Big thumbs up for Jeff Walters.

    If quality and function are desired a custom build is the only way to go for a G3K or short barrel HK. Sadly all current production versions cut corners. The heart of your gun is the bolt, barrel and trunion. Do not use cast U.S. made bolts or trunions. Every week we get pictures from customer of cracked U.S. made bolt heads and trunions.

    We have a list of recommended HK smiths here: http://www.robertrtg.com/links.html .
    Last edited by RobertRTG; 10-11-2012 at 12:14 PM. Reason: huked on fonics wurked for me.

  18. #18
    Registered User HART1's Avatar
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    Robert,
    I seen Jeff is trying to make another gun with a swing down lower.
    From the pics, it looks like a 9mm setup with a k style pack. I seen Trevor and him make something like this in the past.
    I think it's supposed to be a multi caliber setup.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSzsxD6zMA



    I have a design I made several years ago that I like much better than this.
    My multi caliber/magwelll design uses a factory trigger pack, just like the one's used on every other roller locking HK, not a whole new lower like this design..
    Last edited by HART1; 10-16-2012 at 06:21 PM.

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    I have a PTR PDW 32 SBR, ace makes an endcap with a buffer as well as very nice folding stocks it is a very quick installation and looks great.

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    I contacted Chuck from post #4 on this thread and sent him a collapsing stock to shorten the recoil rod for me so it would fit in a PTR91 PDW SBR. He did the work and sent it back, only he'd been having some issues with his shop and stuff, and in the rush to get it back to me, forgot it was for a pistol/sbr and the rod was still too long when I got it back. The work looked good though, welded up nice. So I sent it back to him, and he said it he would turn it around fast. I heard from him when he got it. But I haven't heard back from him since and it's been about a month with 3 emails. Starting to get a little worried at this point. Hopefully he doesn't drop off the face of the earth with my stock.


    Update on Chuck. I sent the guy my collapsing stock for him to fix the work he originally did and shorten it for the PDW. He said he would turn it around "same day." I didn't hear from him again for a month. After several emails I finally got a response "Sorry, I've been out of the country" or something about his job. Then the guy disappeared again and I haven't heard from him since.

    So... DON'T SEND YOUR STOCK TO CHUCK! Looks like I'm out the stock and $90 I paid him for the job.

    I also posted this here: http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showth...-PTR-91-buffer

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