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Thread: M10/9 magazine questions

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    M10/9 magazine questions

    I've finally collected all the components for the 9mm conversion of my PS M10/45. Yesterday was it's first test fire and I'm very encouraged. I currently own exactly one cheap, aftermarket, double feed magazine. The malfunctions we encountered yesterday were all feed related so I'm guessing it was the magazine. I don't need to rely on this conversion to shoot 9mm, but it gives me another option.

    My question is for those of you who have purchased one or more of the newly reproduced M10/9 mags from Russell at RPB. Do these mags function as well as the original Walther mags? I don't mind paying fifty bucks for a reliable magazine, but I do have an aversion to buying junk mags at any price. How about any of you who have a 9mm conversion kit? Anything I need to know to get it running reliably?

    Thanks in advance for your answers!

    http://www.ftfindustries.com/mm5/mer...gory_Code=MCMG

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    Have not tried the m10 DF mags. If there like the m11 mags .380, he makes. There are good to go. The m11 mag I have ran great! I hope this helps.
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    Hi Tom,

    I have several of Russell's 9mm and .380 MAC mags, mine do work as well as originals.

    On the 9mm conversion kits; I have a 9mm conversion kit that I bought a while back from Cobray (Harvey Mars?) for my PS .45 M10. I noticed that the magazine adapter wasn't a tight fit around the 9mm magazine, after some careful bending to tighten it up, reliability improved a lot. In my .45 MAC I have one of the mag catches that allows the use of non-modified M3 or modified .45 magazines. When I use the 9mm conversion I put the standard factory catch back in, it helps with reliabilty in 9mm as well. However, it is not as reliable as a factory 9mm MAC.

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    Thanks Frank.

    That's very helpful information and I appreciate you taking time to share it.

    I have an extended paddle mag release that i ground to allow use of modified and unmodified grease gun mags. The Cobray marked 9mm magazine adapter fits very tight inside the PS M-10/45 magwell, but the 9mm magazine itself has some up and down slop. I have a couple of NOS RPB 9mm magazine catches that were generously provided to me by one of our member/vendors. I'm told they are slightly different from the .45acp catch although I haven't actually compared them side by side. I'll definitely swap out the existing .45acp magazine catch with one of the OEM 9mm catches after i receive the new RPB mags and try the conversion kit again.

    I'll be sure to post a follow up for the who may be interested in such things.
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    Sorry Vegas.... I am keeping my mouth shut here because of 2 things.....

    1. I don't have any of the new "Russell mags".

    2. My past attempts at 9mm in a 45 MAC failed..... I don't know who made my magwell adaptor, but it has slop in all directions. I gave up........

    .
    Better to have it and not need it.... Than need it and not have it...................

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    There is a small difference between the 45 and the 9mm mag catches, but several people here have used their 45 caliber mag catches on their 9mm conversion kit and had it work. I have to switch to the 9mm catch when using my kit. I have only had 100% reliability with the conversion kits when using the original Mac/Walther 9mm mags.

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    SGF; I think my magwell adapter came from Cobray.com? It's nicely parked and has the Cobray logo. This adapter is a very tight fit in my PS M10/45 magwell, and there is no wiggle, slop, or play when inserted. If you have that much play in your adapter, I'm not surprised it won't run. Additionally, lousy mags will only add to that poor running conversion.

    BlackBelt; Thanks for confirming what I'd been told about the 9mm mag catch being an important component in this conversion. Swapping it out should only take a minute... Literally. I appreciate your input, but I'm curious if you've tried these new RPB mags?

    OK, I've ordered a pair of the new production RPB M10/9 mags from FTF Industries. Shipping was a flat five bucks which I thought was reasonable. Based on Saturday's brief test of the components I'd already assembled, I have a high level of confidence the new mags coupled with the correct 9mm mag catch will yield excellent results.
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    Please let us know how this goes. I was thinking of ordering the same magazines and mag adapter but I couldn't find anyone who has tried that combination on here and $50 a mag ain't cheap. What upper are you going to run in 9mm?

    If this set up works, an max10/9 might me in my future. I will have 3 caliber subgun.

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    I agree... Fifty bucks a crack ain't cheap, but well worth it if they function well.
    My M10 9mm conversion component acquisition list;

    Sweet Johnny bought an almost complete upper assembly from an individual that was advertised as a "MAC11". What he received was a M-10 9mm upper and bolt. Rather than attempting to get a refund, He offered it to me for what he paid. I don't know the origin of the upper. It's a blued type finish rather than parked, and is Cobray marked. The Sweet Johnny upper included a single feed bolt with no ejector rod, buffer, take down pin, or cocking knob. Both upper and bolt look like low mileage units, but I could only use the barreled upper.

    Shortly after buying the upper from Johnny, he gave me an aftermarket 9mm double feed magazine he'd come across somewhere. It has a plastic follower, but no markings of any kind.

    A couple of months later, Sweet Johnny needed to place an order for various M11/9 parts. He asked if I needed anything from Cobray, so I had him order the mag well adapter for me.

    Somewhere along the line, I obtained original NOS RPB M10/9 mag catches. It's my understanding there are more of these new, original catches, but I won't reveal the source unless I get his OK to do so. The color matches some of the original bronze or plum colored parts you'll see used in the PS and RPB guns.

    Brother Evil recently bought a complete 9mm upper from a private party and it came with an old style double feed bolt. He's moving towards all new style DF M-10 9mm bolts and uppers that don't require the extractor relief cut into the barrel. Knowing I needed a double feed bolt to complete my 9mm conversion, he offered it to me for a very good price. I bought the complete old style bolt about two weeks ago and this completed the conversion parts I needed to shoot 9mm out of my PS M-10/45.

    I was never in a hurry to put a 9mm conversion kit together, so it came a part at a time over several months. The RPB reproduction mags are the last component I really needed, and I'm optimistic the kit will run well with them.

    *Just an FYI... I placed my order with FTF Industries this morning. This afternoon, I was emailed a USPS Priority Mail tracking number saying my order has shipped with delivery expected Thursday. Sunday will likely be the soonest I'll be able to test function my now complete conversion package, but I promise to post my results.
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    Tom,
    I tried to take your advice and get a 9mm mag catch for my PS M45 to 9mm conversion...seems they are hard to find...Cobray lists a plastic one, US Machine Guns offers one, but it doesn't specify any caliber, nothing at FTF except some type of extended catch Anyone know where to get an original style 9mm catch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferndog1 View Post
    Tom,
    I tried to take your advice and get a 9mm mag catch for my PS M45 to 9mm conversion...seems they are hard to find...Cobray lists a plastic one, US Machine Guns offers one, but it doesn't specify any caliber, nothing at FTF except some type of extended catch Anyone know where to get an original style 9mm catch?
    What about Russel at RPB?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmsubgun-m11 View Post
    What about Russel at RPB?
    Thanks for the suggestion, I just checked but there is nothing listed under M10/9mm parts except his magazines.

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    I just checked my original .45acp magazine catch against the 9mm catch, and the lock up ledge on the 9mm catch is noticeably shorter. The 9mm catch is on top in all three photos. Aditionally you'll note the 9mm catch doesn't have the serrations found on the original PS 45 catch as depicted in the middle photo.

    The actual color of the 9mm catch isn't correct in the iPad photos. You'll likely note a bronze type color on some fire control parts such as your selector/sear pin. The 9mm catch retains this color while the original PS M-10/45 catch does not. I also noted my M10/45 catch has a number 2 cast into a circle while the 9mm catch lacks any markings whatsoever.

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    *i just now sent an email including a link to this thread asking if he wants to sell a few more M-10/9 catches. Give me a day for his response or perhaps he'll post himself.
    I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just honoring his wish to remain anonymous.
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  14. #14
    Registered User Garrett's Avatar
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    I had pieced together a 9mm setup when I had my PS MAC10, and it worked out pretty well for me. There were no "affordable" double-feed mags available at the time, but I found the Cobray magwell adapter worked just as well with the zytel M11/9 mags. This was handy, as I also had an M11 with a bunch of mags.

    Obviously, I needed to use a single-feed bolt with this setup. I also had a mag catch for a TX MAC. I don't know if this one was different than the 9mm catch for a PS gun, but it was obviously different than the .45 catch, much like what Vegas shows in his photos.

    In addition to using the zytle mags, I found the PAM-2 mags worked great as well. Since the mag catch is in a different location on the MAC10 vs. M11, the bottom of the reinforcing band at the top of the mags served as the catch for the fat MAC. Sometimes you would have to adjust them upward just a little, other mags were good to go with no mods.


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    Mark sent me an email regarding these catches. A portion of it is below. http://www.mlrdistributing.com/main.sc

    It is OK to let people know I have them. They are not on my web site, so if they want to order one they will have to call or email me. I know you have my email. Not sure if you still have my phone number. It is 407-854-1704. Hours are 9am to 6pm Eastern.

    Just some info one these mag catches. I am pretty sure they came out of RPB (not Russell's RPB). RPB made mag dies to run their own 45 mags (and 9mm) which don't have as long as a "back strap" (for no better name to call it). I am pretty sure the catches I have will work in any MAC 10 when used with any mag wether it be 9mm or 45. The exception to the rule is un-modified grease gun mags that were originally supplied with original Powder Spring Guns. I am pretty sure they will even work in all M11s.
    That's also great information Garrett! I own both a M11/9 and a M11-A1 so I already have a bunch of various mags I can use. Perhaps I'll give those a try as well. I don't think using single feed mags would restrict you to using a single feed bolt. A double feed bolt should strip rounds from both single and double feed mags equally well, but I may be wrong. I have both bolts and the proper mags for each, so perhaps I'll play around with different combinations to see what works best.
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    Original 45 catches with serrations may have a number ( 2 ) in the circle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkcollector View Post
    Original 45 catches with serrations may have a number ( 2 ) in the circle
    As usual, you are absolutely correct Sir. Thanks! I appreciate accurate information.

    I double checked my PS magazine catch and it is indeed a number 2. (Time for new glasses?)
    The number [2] is stamped inside a small box and both are contained inside the recessed circle. ( [2] )

    *Edited to add...
    I installed the 9mm magazine release in my PS M-10/45 today. I fumbled the install and it still only took 1.7 seconds total time. Converted single feed Argentine PAM2 mags have a considerable amount of up and down play with this catch, while the generic double feed mag shows only a very small amount of up and down play. If the RPB mags fit as well as his one, they shouldn't be a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    I don't think using single feed mags would restrict you to using a single feed bolt. A double feed bolt should strip rounds from both single and double feed mags equally well...
    A single-feed bolt may work fine with double- or single-feed mags, but likely not the other way around. The bottom of the double-feed bolt is too wide to fit between the feed lips of the single-feed mag.

    Go get one of your M11/9 mags and run your M10 DF bolt over it like it would in the gun and you will see what I mean.

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    I was thinking that my double feed MAX-11 upper/bolt for my M-11/9 runs equally well with both modified DF Suomi mags and modified SF Argentine PAM2s. Not so with the M-10/9, a double feed bolt, and a single feed magazine.

    I grabbed a PAM2 magazine and noted the magazine's over insertion is only stopped by the bolt's ejector rod... Not good.
    An OEM Zytel mag locks up properly in the 2nd position catch on the mag's spine, but stops forward travel of the wider bolt.
    My DF mag has the over insertion stops built in, so it aligns properly with the DF bolt and allows for proper travel.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    I was thinking that my double feed MAX-11 upper/bolt for my M-11/9 runs equally well with both modified DF Suomi mags and modified SF Argentine PAM2s. Not so with the M-10/9, a double feed bolt, and a single feed magazine.
    Right. The M11 has a single-feed bolt, modified to work with a double-feed mag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    I grabbed a PAM2 magazine and noted the magazine's over insertion is only stopped by the bolt's ejector rod...
    Yes, they are able to over-insert (okay, it's been a while since I sold the MAC-10, and I'd forgotten). But from a practical standpoint, I never had an issue with them. It's like shooting those 40-round Uzi mags, which can also over-insert. You just know you have to pull them down after inserting them to make sure they are seated properly.

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