UZI Talk Forums
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: NFA nubers? How many is out there of each MG?

  1. #1
    Registered User Zohan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    N Florida
    Posts
    273

    NFA nubers? How many is out there of each MG?

    To my knowledge there is somewhere between 100 - 130k MGs was registered before 86. Some are much more available. Obviously what was popular between 1934 and 1986 is more numerous. Dose any about know how many copys of each MG was registered?

    Hk Sears ~5000

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    305
    There are estimates from various sources, but nobody knows (in the absolute sense) for sure. Even the ATF.

  3. #3
    Registered User timkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,271
    That data has always been a guessing game. The ATF has been updating the registry to a computer database system. So that data should be searchable soon. But I don't know if the ATF would be willing to share that information with mere mortals.

  4. #4
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Roaster72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    368
    The only number ever released by the ATF regarding total transferable nachine guns was 175,000. I believe the exact number appeared in SAR several years ago. That number is of course lower now as there have been some losses. Those shenanigans involving those east coast dealers took an estimated 50 M11/9s and M10s off the registry.

    The most widely accepted "highest" number for an individual gun is that there are 19,000 M11/9s in the registry. Some exceptionally low numbers are also known such as the 1 titanium Beretta 93R and 5 aluminum framed Beretta 93Rs. The number of Vector Uzis is also known because of Group's bankruptcy.

    I can about guarantee that the ATF will never release any numbers except the total given the information in the registry is protected tax information.
    My gun collection is one murderous rampage away from becoming an arsenal

  5. #5
    UZI Talk Life Member
    rhouston8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,084
    what ive read/heard /rumor as this question gets asked from time to time. From memory so pardon if in error

    1. about 175,000 reg. MGs
    2. about 30,000 "macs"-all comers
    3. about 7,500 HK sears
    4. about 750 Reg. Lightening Links
    5. FNC sears- always a source of debate. Lets say 3,500 although some will go as high as 7,000
    6. Miniguns - I've heard 7 and 12...either way just a handful

    The above is just a composite from various non reliable sources (ie - internet) over the years. Your Mileage may vary and I won't argue with anyone about the exact #s, etc.

  6. #6
    Registered User Zohan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    N Florida
    Posts
    273
    What is the approximation on the Uzi numbers? Seems like GI is much more pravilant / available.

  7. #7
    UZI Talk Life Member
    rhouston8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,084
    maybe...
    3,000 Group flats bought by vector and built up later. There's a great article in the Library here or somewhere that gives exact numbers.

    Vector made like 500 ???? Minis from the flats I think

    Bolts...BG bolts...I dont know how many I think one of my bolts is in the seven hundred range Serial number wise for whatever that is worth.

    how many IMI reg rec conversions? I dunno.... wild ass guess by me is 10k. Guess, mind you. total guess.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    One Floor Above Hell.....
    Posts
    7
    The more interesting question is.... how many SMG's and MG's are out there that are not registered. GI bringbacks that were never registered, the 1000's of Sten kits, Swedish K kits, Uzi kits, 1919A4's etc. IIRC there are still 60 days on the books from the GCA-1968 of un-used amnesty time.
    Last edited by Bingo; 01-20-2015 at 04:32 AM.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    nePA
    Posts
    1,376
    Quote Originally Posted by rhouston8 View Post
    what ive read/heard /rumor as this question gets asked from time to time. From memory so pardon if in error

    1. about 175,000 reg. MGs
    2. about 30,000 "macs"-all comers
    3. about 7,500 HK sears
    4. about 750 Reg. Lightening Links
    5. FNC sears- always a source of debate. Lets say 3,500 although some will go as high as 7,000
    6. Miniguns - I've heard 7 and 12...either way just a handful

    The above is just a composite from various non reliable sources (ie - internet) over the years. Your Mileage may vary and I won't argue with anyone about the exact #s, etc.
    1 is correct. I have heard it was around 180,000 =/-

    5 is 3500 since no one has seen a serial number higher than that.

    6 I heard four or five. Back twenty years ago they were one of the highest priced MGs, $10,000.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,416
    In August, 2007 there were 182,619 transferrable machine guns in the BATF registery, per then Director, Ken Houchens.

    Some estimates are about 38K MACS (incl ~17K SWD M11/9s); 40K-50K M16s of the various types incl rewelds, RDIAS and RLL; ~ 8K Uzis incl Reg Bolts; ~ 6K Thompsons incl ~ 2K West Hurleys; ~8.5K HK sears; as many as 7K Reisings; etc. No way to really id how many tube guns (STEn, MP40), side plate belt feds (1919s), and stuff like that were made were made.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    325
    Do you know how many complete Uzi RR subguns were made by Group Industries prior to Vector? Mine is a RR 9/22/45 marked Group Industries, green grips, no Vector markings.

    Thanks
    Pat

    Any idea on MP44, MP40, Thompson etc numbers?



    Quote Originally Posted by rhouston8 View Post
    maybe...
    3,000 Group flats bought by vector and built up later. There's a great article in the Library here or somewhere that gives exact numbers.

    Vector made like 500 ???? Minis from the flats I think

    Bolts...BG bolts...I dont know how many I think one of my bolts is in the seven hundred range Serial number wise for whatever that is worth.

    how many IMI reg rec conversions? I dunno.... wild ass guess by me is 10k. Guess, mind you. total guess.

  12. #12
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Roaster72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    368
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Soldier View Post
    Do you know how many complete Uzi RR subguns were made by Group Industries prior to Vector?
    You raise an interesting question. The Vector/Group and Group Only Uzis should be within the same serial number run (excluding of course the Group converted IMI uzis). I have always wondered if the Group Only Uzis were at the beginning of the range or if they were spread through the entire range.

    If we were to take a poll of Group and Vector owners, I'm pretty certain a pattern would emerge.

    I'll go first mine is Vector/Group and the serial number is 34XX.
    My gun collection is one murderous rampage away from becoming an arsenal

  13. #13
    UZI Talk Supporter

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    111
    I believe Group Industries manufactured complete SMGs In the sub 101,000 serial number range. Rover Dave has written about the serial number range previously. I believe that the Group assembled guns run into the 100,700s leaving approximately 3300 assembled by Vector. The green furniture is definitely consistent with Group assembly. If you have the original box the Group box is plain brown cardboard. The Vector box is white and sometimes referred to as the "cake" box. I hope this information helps and I invite further clarification by more knowledgeable members.

  14. #14
    UZI Talk Supporter

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    111
    P.S. I believe that Vector may not have marked some of the SMGs that they assembled.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    325
    Thanks, so about 700GI and 3300 Vectors? That is really not a lot. Mine has a GI bolt. I run a parts kit bolt in it and it is flawless. It is great.



    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2000 View Post
    I believe Group Industries manufactured complete SMGs In the sub 101,000 serial number range. Rover Dave has written about the serial number range previously. I believe that the Group assembled guns run into the 100,700s leaving approximately 3300 assembled by Vector. The green furniture is definitely consistent with Group assembly. If you have the original box the Group box is plain brown cardboard. The Vector box is white and sometimes referred to as the "cake" box. I hope this information helps and I invite further clarification by more knowledgeable members.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    6 I heard four or five. Back twenty years ago they were one of the highest priced MGs, $10,000.
    This one has appreciated a little bit.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    nePA
    Posts
    1,376
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckB View Post
    This one has appreciated a little bit.
    A few years back it was $125,000.

  18. #18
    Administrator
    RoverDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ND
    Posts
    15,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2000 View Post
    I believe Group Industries manufactured complete SMGs In the sub 101,000 serial number range. Rover Dave has written about the serial number range previously. I believe that the Group assembled guns run into the 100,700s leaving approximately 3300 assembled by Vector. The green furniture is definitely consistent with Group assembly. If you have the original box the Group box is plain brown cardboard. The Vector box is white and sometimes referred to as the "cake" box. I hope this information helps and I invite further clarification by more knowledgeable members.
    Unfortunately, neither Group Industries nor Vector produced UZIs in strict serial number order. You'll find strings of them being mostly in order and then numbers that are completely out of sequence. As a result, you can't reliably date one of their guns just by the serial number. But the overall quantities you mention are roughly correct. The Vector boxes were white as mentioned. The original Group Industries boxes I've seen were also white, but a different shape. Group was a small company and it's possible their packaging changed over time, so there's no guarantee that they were always white.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    262
    My NIB Group (at the time) arrived in a white cardboard box with the serial # hand written in black marker outside of the box. Enclosed other than the gun was shredded cardboard used as cushioning along with a tan in color owners manual when I had received it several years back.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by RMA View Post
    My NIB Group (at the time) arrived in a white cardboard box with the serial # hand written in black marker outside of the box. Enclosed other than the gun was shredded cardboard used as cushioning along with a tan in color owners manual when I had received it several years back.
    Mine was exactly the same way, with a 20 round magazine in a plastic sleeve. Unlike what I was expecting, the barrel did not have a number stamped on it near the muzzle. I don't expect foul play, just everything I read about the parts used to complete the Vectors says that the barrel should be marked. The bolt was marked correctly with a P in a triangle.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Please consider becoming an UZI Talk Supporter.