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Thread: Galil ACE Report from 2015 Shot Show

  1. #21
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    Mr Folgers,

    Good points. Yes, the Israelis can be difficult to deal with. But in response to a query from me to IWI, I was told some parts on Galil Aces are compatible with original Galils. If that's the case, I'm curious to know if IWI in the U.S. will make those parts in question available to individual buyers. IWI did not identify the compatible parts. I'm hoping (and I know hoping isn't worth much) that a window for parts will be opened.

  2. #22
    Registered User Mr Folgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Mr Folgers,

    Good points. Yes, the Israelis can be difficult to deal with. But in response to a query from me to IWI, I was told some parts on Galil Aces are compatible with original Galils. If that's the case, I'm curious to know if IWI in the U.S. will make those parts in question available to individual buyers. IWI did not identify the compatible parts. I'm hoping (and I know hoping isn't worth much) that a window for parts will be opened.
    The only parts on the ACE that are compatible (to my knowledge with IND) is the bolt, recoil assembly and FCG. And of course, the magazines for 5.56/7.62.
    The dust cover is similar to the original but I'm not sure about this part.

  3. #23
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    Here is some correct info. Ak,ar and sr-25 mags. The internals looked different. The guys were not sure anything would fit


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Folgers View Post
    The only parts on the ACE that are compatible (to my knowledge with IND) is the bolt, recoil assembly and FCG. And of course, the magazines for 5.56/7.62.
    The dust cover is similar to the original but I'm not sure about this part.
    My guesstimate for parts compatibility is as follows:

    1) IWI probably did not change the barrel chamber threading/dimensions; so barrels may interchange
    2) Bolt and recoil rod are identical in all likelihood
    3) I have read that the FCG has been improved over traditional Galils, however, the FCG should be interchangeable in all likelihood.
    4) Also original magazines will fit as Mr. Folgers notes. However, the Ace versions we are likely to see in the U.S. will probably not take standard Galil mags in 5.56 or 7.62 Nato.
    5) While the thumb safety appears outwardly different, I conclude that the time-proven internal linkage is identical.
    6) Ace top cover would need to be trimmed near port for RH bolt carriers.
    7) Various pins, springs, etc. will interchange.
    8) Barrel threading for flash hiders has not been changed in all likelihood.

    I believe that the IWI parts boon will really benefit those who own Micro Galils. For example, in addition to above:

    1) The Ace sights (with tritium inserts) will interchange with a Micro Galil.
    2) The railed gas tube and railed dust cover should readily swap onto Model B versions.
    3) The spring loaded LH dust cover and parts are identical to LH-charging Micro Galils.
    4) Although it looks different, the gas block appears to be the same configuration and location as a Micro Galil.
    5) The polymer "lower" MIGHT be made to fit a Micro Galil, if you were inclined for some reason.
    6) The Ace RH selector will probably fit micros, too.

    I'm still trying to determine whether Ace stocks will be an easy cross-over or not.
    Last edited by Ruddiger; 01-24-2015 at 11:46 AM.

  5. #25
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    Rudddiger,

    Your estimate certainly seems plausible. Even if only a few parts are interchangeable, we obviously will benefit from that. Soooo, things are looking up.

  6. #26
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    OK; it was a great trip, since the whole purpose was for the IWI booth.

    Meeting Darth Galoni was great; as it is fun when his mission was the same for the show. Show was incredible and a information overload.

    Plus; meeting the IWI folks (that I have talked on the phone with for a few years now) and meeting the Israeli Shooting instructors who have shot all models; including the Galatz's. Now I have more contacts overseas.

    So here is some info for the wondering minds:
    7.62 X 39 models:
    *After holding them; I really like them, including the lighter weight.
    *One of the instructors says that is his personal choice (of course his is in full auto)
    *The pistol is imported as is; all Israeli parts (922 applies to rifles).
    *They will be available at anytime soon.

    7.62 X 51 models:
    *Will be available in 20inch / 18 inch / 16 inch / and 11.8 inch barrel for the pistol.
    *Will take SR25 magazines
    *The pistol will also have a brace
    *Will become available in August

    5.56 models:
    *Will take AR mags
    *Did not ask about if it will be available in a pistol also.
    *Will be available after the first of next year.

    General ACE:
    *Almost all parts including the barrel and receiver are made in Israel.
    *Was told the barrel and receiver are one piece (not sure if they are threaded in? But if so; not sure why you want to swap out barrels; as this is added task).
    *Was told the left handed dust cover is slightly different in dimensions than the micro's (I guess I'll have to measure when I have 2 models side by side).
    *ACE Parts will become available down the road (just like they are starting to appear for the Tavor)
    *They will be offering a few different other stocks; including a Korean Wire one. They will interchange for swapping purposes.

    Standard traditional Galil parts:
    *They have a large batch of old new stock parts that will be available in the next few weeks; that have been sitting for a long time.
    *Do not know what exact parts or their prices; as that info wasn't available.

    Hope this answers the questions. Hope you are excited like I am.
    Last edited by adipose; 01-24-2015 at 05:06 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcastillo View Post
    So not only is IWI introducing a new line of weapons. They are also proceeding with re-introducing IMI ammunition with a booth at the 2015 Shot Show in Las Vegas. In the next pictures Adipose displays his foreign relation skills with the female Israeli IMI reps Little do they know Adipose has the largest collection of Galil's in the west coast. He is the Izzy "Lord of War"! We have to admit Chuck is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to Galil's. Thanks Adipose for letting us live vicariously thru you passion for the Galil rifle and providing us with thes great pictures from the 2015 Shot Show. It has been very exciting for me to post all the great pictures you took.

    If you guys have noticed the Israeli Military Industries LTD "Samson" brand 5.56 X 45 ammunition is available at Brownell's (from Iowa) in 30 round boxes http://www.brownells.com/ammunition/...prod60448.aspx it is made to military spec. I personally just bought 5 boxes and as soon as the weather allows I will give you a field report on this ammunition. For you UZI lovers, IMI also sells the SAMSON 9MM ammunition which they seem to be out of right now. Brownell's is also selling the SAMSON 7.62 NATO 50 round box for $36.99 which is not a shabby price for NATO grade ammo. The 7.62 can be found on the next line item under the 5.56mm ammunition on the link I posted. I just realized while posting this thread that the 5.56MM ammo is temporarily out online but make sure you stock up on your 7.62 before its to late. Peace out! Lou
    I'm pretty stock on Independence XM193I (IMI 55gr ball) right now, but if you're looking for IMI boxed stuff, Wideners lowered all their IMI boxed 5.56 stuff at 1.2k quantity quite a bit a month or so ago from where it had been since the 2012 panic... 1200 round case is $349 (was $479 if I recall correctly). https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9017

    They have IMI ammo in a bunch of other IMI boxed ammo too -- select IMI as the manufacturer in the dropdown in the top right: https://www.wideners.com/mfgview.cfm

  8. #28
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    There's a part diagram in this thread here: http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showth...l=1#post675275



    None of the furniture appears to be switchable (stock, handguards, pistol grip, etc), but otherwise, high probability of being able to swap. Gas tubes are probably rifle/gas port location dependent, with pistols likely having SAR length gas tubes... (They look to be roughly the same length as original tubes.) I guess a complete swap is likely a question of whether you want to drill out to put in that spring loaded cover on the left side... Personally, I'm most interested in part #25 that appears to make the top cover more stable than our original gen 1 setup.

    Question -- since these ace receivers are close to the micro -- do micro and full size galil's FCG hot swap? If so, they likely just made the trigger a little lighter and with shorter reset (from what I've read in reviews -- have never used an OEM galil trigger due to 922r...).

  9. #29
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    Thanks for the info adipose!

    Sounds like IMI will be producing some US components for rifles to meet 922r. Likely FCG included in that? Might also mean spare/replacement IMI barrels?

    Would expect we'll see aftermarket bolts and bolt parts too -- like that currently not available firing pin retaining pin...

  10. #30
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    Hagai Katz was one of the instructors we talked to; plus really likes the 7.62 X 39.


    http://www.military.com/video/guns/r...4003050491001/

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by adipose View Post
    Hagai Katz was one of the instructors we talked to; plus really likes the 7.62 X 39.

    http://www.military.com/video/guns/r...4003050491001/
    I prefer the 7.62x39 to 5.56, especially on a cost basis but also on a reliability basis... BUT I think 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 in military ammo options, the 7n6 projectile is a pretty fantastic piece of military engineering. The lighter weight, flatter trajectory, less recoil, great penetration, and engineering that allows for rapid tumbling in flesh all makes for a pretty compelling case... 7.62x39, militarily, can only really make a compelling case vs 5.45x39 when you're talking about barriers like brick, block, etc, that have mass such that you need a really heavy projectile to get through...
    The 7n6 ban hammer came down before I got into any weapons/ammo stocks in 5.45 though. So I'm keeping myself to 5.56 and 7.62x39 exclusively.

    -Regarding reliability, 7.62x39 has a more tapered case than 5.56 leading to greater reliability in feeding and extraction.

    -7.62x39 costs 1/3rd less than 5.56 or 5.56 costs 50% more than 7.62x39 for "mil-spec ammo".
    -Well-performing self defense in 5.56 usually runs the 50 cents range for the high 60 to high 70 grain bthp rounds -- also good long distance rounds... Self-defense, some of the best is soft points that run the 25 cent per round range, but Hornady and others make some more expensive US Made ammo that rivals the 5.56.

    -Weight, from wikipedia based on a 10kg, 22lb max ammo load (AK103 should weight about the same as Magpuls new steel reinforced polymer mag -- very excited about this as it should weigh ~1/2 of what the steel AK mags do): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._M16#Firepower
    AKM ribbed stamped-steel magazine - 12 magazines @ 9.84 kg (21.7 lb) - 360 rounds
    AK-103 steel-reinforced plastic magazine - 13 magazines @ 9.62 kg (21.2 lb) - 390 rounds
    M16 aluminum magazine - 22 magazines @ 9.9 kg (22 lb) - 660 rounds
    (My take is that 7.62x39 is superior if you have resupply. But if your ammo supply is limited to only what you can carry, it makes a strong argument in favor of a lighter round.)
    Bottom line, steel AK mags carry a serious weight penalty at 2x the weight of polymer ones. And the varying condition of steel AK mags causes reliability/compatibility issues as well.

    -Range/trajectory -- 5.56 flies flatter, but 7.62x39 has more energy

    *Recall that 5.56 ball requires 2500+ velocity to reliably fragment, and that 800 ft-lbs energy is recommended to humanely kill a deer...
    **Also, this chart is 5.56 out of a 20" barrel. Out of 14.5" barrel M4 carbines, you're only above 2500 fps in 5.56 w/in 100 yards or so (around 2700 fps at PBR if I recall correctly).

    If I'm stuck w/ one round, there's a lot about 7.62x39 to like -- I think it fills almost all .308 vs 5.56 roles w/in 300 yards or so. Especially if I don't need to have a lot of ammo.
    If I'm planning to do a lot of walking and/or anticipating extended combat, there's a lot about 5.56 to like.
    For my wallet, there's also a lot about 7.62x39 to like.
    But for more compact storage, there's a lot about 5.56 to like.
    For humane hunting, there's again, a lot about 7.62x39 to like.
    For a shorter barrel length that optimizes round performance, there's a lot about 7.62x39 to like (5.56 being designed for 20" barrels, 7.62x39 for 16").

    There's more to the caliber debate, but this is a good starting point to refresh/for selection.

    Just thought I'd share some of my thought processes for which caliber to use... But for 7.62x39, I'm a proud and committed VZ58 guy (last shot bolt hold open and lighter than the Galil ACE -- ACE 31, 7.62x39, w/ 8.5" barrel is 6.7 lb and ACE 33, 7.62x39, w/ 16" barrel is 7.5 lb vs compact VZ58 w/ 7.5" barrel at 6.1 lbs and VZ58 regular w/ 16" barrel at 6.8 lbs) and that system's proprietary aluminum alloy mags weigh about the same or less than most polymer AK mags...
    Last edited by RSR; 01-25-2015 at 04:35 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by adipose View Post
    Standard traditional Galil parts:
    *They have a large batch of old new stock parts that will be available in the next few weeks; that have been sitting for a long time.
    *Do not know what exact parts or their prices; as that info wasn't available.
    Now this is getting interesting.
    Knowing IWI/IMI though, you can count on none of it being cheap...

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Folgers View Post
    Now this is getting interesting.
    Knowing IWI/IMI though, you can count on none of it being cheap...
    Hey it's great news for guys with original Galils. I wish that FN would do the same for the FNC. I won't buy a FS2000, SCAR or PS90 because parts are tough to get for them. These companies need to consider support when they are planning to bring this stuff over.


    As far as the new Galil ACE, I figured great until I heard of the polymer receiver. Now I see that the barrel and receiver are one piece. I am figuring molded in like the G36, which means that it will have the same accuracy issues.

    "General ACE:
    *Almost all parts including the barrel and receiver are made in Israel.
    *Was told the barrel and receiver are one piece (not sure if they are threaded in? But if so; not sure why you want to swap out barrels; as this is added task)."

  14. #34
    Registered User Mr Folgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    As far as the new Galil ACE, I figured great until I heard of the polymer receiver. Now I see that the barrel and receiver are one piece. I am figuring molded in like the G36, which means that it will have the same accuracy issues.

    "General ACE:
    *Almost all parts including the barrel and receiver are made in Israel.
    *Was told the barrel and receiver are one piece (not sure if they are threaded in? But if so; not sure why you want to swap out barrels; as this is added task)."
    But the receiver isn't polymer; it's steel with a polymer lower housing.
    Something doesn't sound right about the receiver and barrel being "one piece". They definitely had to either thread or pin the barrel to the receiver or else they wouldn't be able to adjust headspace.

  15. #35
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    Likely threaded. Back to that earlier thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruddiger View Post
    I have studied the Indumil/Ace production videos online, and I agree with your conclusions. The mounting hole for the stock is still round, however, the area below the spring perch has been carved out (for polymer attachment?). The retaining rollpin for the stock appears to be in the same location… which means this ar buffer tube conversion looks like it should fit the receiver (with a gap in the area below the spring perch).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruddiger View Post

  16. #36
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    Definitely threaded, assuming there's a barrel being torqued on here -- caption suggests it is per google translate "After the white assembly , proceed to black in which piece by piece up what will be the future weapon, here the rifle barrel is mounted.":


    Great thread/picture assembly series here: http://www.dinero.com/negocios/galer...-dentro/146818
    Last edited by RSR; 01-26-2015 at 04:33 AM.

  17. #37
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    Larry Vickers released his Galil ACE shotshow video that he promised a few days ago:

    http://youtu.be/4GXR_8cyPzI

    Ruddiger -- where did you scrounge that parts diagram from? Would like to see one with their bolt hold open mechanism...
    Last edited by RSR; 01-27-2015 at 03:09 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by adipose View Post
    *They will be offering a few different other stocks; including a Korean Wire one. They will interchange for swapping purposes.
    This is double plus huge news for those of us who were planning on doing SBRs. Very nice to hear. I assume you meant "Vietnam wire one", though.

    Standard traditional Galil parts:
    *They have a large batch of old new stock parts that will be available in the next few weeks; that have been sitting for a long time.
    *Do not know what exact parts or their prices; as that info wasn't available.
    This is vaguely intriguing. It would be neat if they had some Galil Ultra kits or something.

  19. #39
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    Galil Ultra is just the FAB/Mako Galil Ultra grip (their new rubberized one is better, same profile), the FAB/Mako polymer handguard, and an AR stock tube w/ a FAB/Mako Stock (possibly a command arms stock here instead).

    Stock tube: https://www.zfi-tactical.com/en/ga-t...ock-conversion

    Fab defense stock: http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-buttstocks.html

    Old Galil Ultra grip: http://www.fab-defense.com/en/catego...tol-grip-.html
    New Rubberized version: http://www.fab-defense.com/en/catego...stol-grip.html

    railed handguard: http://www.fab-defense.com/en/catego...andguards.html

    Apex sells some command arms if you'd rather: https://apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/75

    Can only find this google thumbnail for the Galil Ultra w/ a quick search:


    But here's what IMI says about it:
    Galil Ultra is an upgrade kit for the three Galil assault rifles. The kit comprises an ergonomic hand grip for picatinny rails, telescopic butt and ergonomic pistol grip.
    http://www.israel-weapon.com/?catid=...71BBDD46E28%7D

    Very cool Galil Gen 1 sopmod kit some vendor is selling here: http://inter2t.com/wp-content/upload...PMOD-Galil.pdf
    Source link: http://inter2t.com/?page_id=1091
    Last edited by RSR; 01-28-2015 at 03:22 PM.

  20. #40
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    Yes, yes, I know I could build a reasonable facsimile of the Galil Ultra kit, but it'd be nice to have the proper IWI-branded bits. The SOPMOD kit is intriguing, too.

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