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Thread: 12 ga upper for M-11/9 project

  1. #21
    Registered User JP87's Avatar
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    Have you seen the Fostech Origin 12? This thing is begging to be mated to a MAC receiver.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrsvUanLfU
    ...30 round drum mag is a nice touch.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP87 View Post
    Have you seen the Fostech Origin 12? This thing is begging to be mated to a MAC receiver.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrsvUanLfU
    ...30 round drum mag is a nice touch.
    Didn't the AA guys come up with a "Origin" series shotgun way back when?
    Also, that drum magazine bears an uncanny resemblance to the mags they used to make for their Saiga's.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid T. View Post
    Didn't the AA guys come up with a "Origin" series shotgun way back when?
    Also, that drum magazine bears an uncanny resemblance to the mags they used to make for their Saiga's.
    I was thinking the same thing about the drum. Wasn't it called the wraithmaker?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjm204 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing about the drum. Wasn't it called the wraithmaker?
    Those were pricey as I recall, for a mag- I recall passing on one. One alternative to belt fed would be chute fed, which may work with a proper follower/ pushing mechanism. I've thought about this for the Mac- flexible ammo chute that clicks right into your magwell. Belt fed fun with fewer moving parts. I'm going to continue down the road on the Saiga pattern & magwell but that option remains on the table, might be easier with a larger round (vs. 9mm).

  5. #25
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    i doubt any of those shotgun video's are 00 buckshot...most likely #8's....i think using a full size shot shell on a small Mac 11 would be impossible to control.....

    cost is where this project is going to probably die...if it could be done with mini's using a max 10/31 idea then maybe $1200.....but if in an all out 11/15 setup it may be over $2,000+

    you could sell every one a 12 gauge upper for $600....but few for $2,000+

    could you modify a siaga mag to only take mini's?

    what length barrel is correct to get everything out of one of those mini's?
    Last edited by Battering ram NIB; 06-07-2017 at 12:41 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concorde View Post
    Saiga postie select-fire/full auto:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR8tvOzYNVk
    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    i doubt any of those shotgun video's are 00 buckshot...most likely #8's....i think using a full size shot shell on a small Mac 11 would be impossible to control.....

    cost is where this project is going to probably die...if it could be done with mini's using a max 10/31 idea then maybe $1200.....but if in an all out 11/15 setup it may be over $2,000+

    you could sell every one a 12 gauge upper for $600....but few for $2,000+

    could you modify a siaga mag to only take mini's?

    what length barrel is correct to get everything out of one of those mini's?
    Yes, mags can be (fairly) easily converted to work with shorter ammo. To do this, you need to make a "block".

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    Those were pricey as I recall, for a mag- I recall passing on one.
    They were more expensive because they were made out of CNC machined aluminum and assembled where everything else on the market is plastic inject molded.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    Those were pricey as I recall, for a mag- I recall passing on one. One alternative to belt fed would be chute fed, which may work with a proper follower/ pushing mechanism. I've thought about this for the Mac- flexible ammo chute that clicks right into your magwell. Belt fed fun with fewer moving parts. I'm going to continue down the road on the Saiga pattern & magwell but that option remains on the table, might be easier with a larger round (vs. 9mm).
    wouldnt the rim on a shotgun shell be problematic in a chute?

  9. #29
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    Guy built a 12ga beltfed upper for his M16.

    ATF deemed it a post sample.

    https://youtu.be/iX7vwivR6cE

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boot View Post
    Guy built a 12ga beltfed upper for his M16.

    ATF deemed it a post sample.

    https://youtu.be/iX7vwivR6cE
    Zombie Apocalypse wont touch his farm

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffDragon View Post
    wouldnt the rim on a shotgun shell be problematic in a chute?

    You bet!!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    Yes, mags can be (fairly) easily converted to work with shorter ammo. To do this, you need to make a "block".
    Anyone make a mini shell magazine? I haven't seen one!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boot View Post
    Guy built a 12ga beltfed upper for his M16.

    ATF deemed it a post sample.

    https://youtu.be/iX7vwivR6cE
    I really don't understand why this would be a post sample. It uses a 1919 designed feed system just like the LM-7 and razorback uppers that Lakeside machine made. I really believe the ATF just makes up rulings on the whim of the person not based on actual design criteria

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100 bullets View Post
    I really don't understand why this would be a post sample. It uses a 1919 designed feed system just like the LM-7 and razorback uppers that Lakeside machine made. I really believe the ATF just makes up rulings on the whim of the person not based on actual design criteria
    This has been covered extensively- for the sake of this effort, this upper is only intended to be for private use, not commercial production. We're in the garage- there's shotgun parts, a Mac lower, and scrap metal- go!
    Last edited by rybread; 06-08-2017 at 12:51 AM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey... View Post
    They were more expensive because they were made out of CNC machined aluminum and assembled where everything else on the market is plastic inject molded.
    These ones also appear to be machined aluminum, is information available?

  16. #36
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    Rybread, I was looking at the European Armory 1919 AR style 12GA thinking the upper off of it would be a possible donor to this type of build, but I noticed that the upper on that firearm is also the serialized part, so it would have the same problem as the Saiga. I'm concerned that if anyone ever questioned a title 1 firearm being used as an upper for a machine gun it would be deemed a new MG and thus not civilian legal. I realize a home build, not for commercial resale, might never get reviewed, but with my luck, I don't take chances.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nklf View Post
    Rybread, I was looking at the European Armory 1919 AR style 12GA thinking the upper off of it would be a possible donor to this type of build, but I noticed that the upper on that firearm is also the serialized part, so it would have the same problem as the Saiga. I'm concerned that if anyone ever questioned a title 1 firearm being used as an upper for a machine gun it would be deemed a new MG and thus not civilian legal. I realize a home build, not for commercial resale, might never get reviewed, but with my luck, I don't take chances.
    I'm with you there, not worth the risk. I'll use 12 ga barrel but a new upper body will be used to mitigate that risk, and I'll follow that same guidelines I applied to the MG-34 upper.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    Anyone make a mini shell magazine? I haven't seen one!
    I haven't seen/heard of any, but there may be a small company that makes them, or could make them.
    Mags aren't terribly hard to make with a sheet metal break. The feed lips are the hardest part, but you could cut a Saiga mag&follower down and use a different spring.
    It would be a lot harder than making a block to shorten the inside length of a standard mag.
    Or you could always use standard lenght low recoil loads.

  19. #39
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    Cheap old Winchester target loads don't kick much at all

  20. #40
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    Yep light loads was the conclusion I came to- easiest way to resolve that matter. I was concerned about potentially increased feeding issues with short rounds. Not looking to make a new magazine for my upper, also.

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