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Thread: Sterling Pre-Purchase Questions – Making sure I have this all straight

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouston8 View Post
    mr maim...what's up? sterling now huh? Interesting . I got tired of listening to everyone chatting up the sterling as if manna from above...so I bought one when one popped up albeit without the in depth research you have done (kudos) but i did insist on a sterling tube as opposed to stenling. Model L2AFS1 built by John Benjamin who I'm not familiar with. Still have a few mo of transfer time waiting. No krinkle for me which is fine.

    i just got so dern sick of hearing sterling owners laud the gun. i swear. So we''ll soon see if it lives up to all the hype.
    mags are spendy at near $100 though.
    Who is the builder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouston8 View Post
    mr maim...what's up? sterling now huh? Interesting . I got tired of listening to everyone chatting up the sterling as if manna from above...so I bought one when one popped up albeit without the in depth research you have done (kudos) but i did insist on a sterling tube as opposed to stenling. Model L2AFS1 built by John Benjamin who I'm not familiar with. Still have a few mo of transfer time waiting. No krinkle for me which is fine.

    i just got so dern sick of hearing sterling owners laud the gun. i swear. So we''ll soon see if it lives up to all the hype.
    mags are spendy at near $100 though.
    rhouston8... good to hear from you bud! Yeah, I have been pining for a Sterling for a long time but this year is the year it boils closer to the top of the list. I have fired a few and they really do live up to the hype. I would say that behind the MP40, the Sterling is the 2nd best tube gun... tied with a Suomi. I've come across so many with tubes from different people and companies that registered them and different builders that built them so I wanted to get my ducks in a row for when the next one pops up, that I know what I'm getting into.

    Yeah mags are a bit cheaper. If you paid $100 you probably got yourself some 45 round magazines, perhaps?

    Let me know how that Sterling works out for you. Hope to see a print of one soon thereafter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    not to trash him but ive also had a bad experienc....i ate it and moved on......PM me for the story..no one is perfect
    Well to be fair Andrewski does not specialize in UZI work.He does however do excellent Sterling builds,rebuilds and repairs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMAN45 View Post
    Who is the builder?

    As stated above "Model L2AFS1 built by John Benjamin"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMAN45 View Post
    Well to be fair Andrewski does not specialize in UZI work.He does however do excellent Sterling builds,rebuilds and repairs.
    he was VERY nice about it....he offered to take the gun back....i just decided to go a different route....johns service was flawless....speed and communication were everything you'd want...BWE found issues just taking it out of the box...welds most likely all bad/some cracked...fixing my frustration was more important than saving money and giving John a 2nd try....most swear by him as being one of the top gun smiths....no one is perfect(im not)

  6. #26
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    Thumbs up Well, that was fast!

    Just wanted to follow up on my thread.

    I ended up buying a MK4. Wilson tube, correct cocking handle slot, built by Don's Guns (yes, I know what I said in my first post) newly built and test fired.

    Purchase and transfer/shipping to my FFL/SOT has completed and I am going to inspect and get the Form-4 started today.

    Thanks to everyone who replied to my original post.

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    I have a feeling it was the one off GB for around $10k?

    If so, congrats! Great price and nice gun!

    Matt

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    That’s interesting.
    I wasn’t aware that Wilson of Brunswick, GA made any Sterling tubes. I’d want to be sure this isn’t papered simply as an Mk2, and is a Sten tube that has the cocking knob slot welded up and recut. Perhaps it’s a different Wilson?
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labanaktis View Post
    I have a feeling it was the one off GB for around $10k?
    If so, congrats! Great price and nice gun!
    Matt
    That was the auction and that was indeed me. Very good price and the seller was outstanding! Perfect transaction from start to finish (minus the transfer to me, mailing forms tomorrow).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    That’s interesting.
    I wasn’t aware that Wilson of Brunswick, GA made any Sterling tubes. I’d want to be sure this isn’t papered simply as an Mk2, and is a Sten tube that has the cocking knob slot welded up and recut. Perhaps it’s a different Wilson?
    The Form-3 approved for transfer says "MK4" in box 3(d).

    Here's the kids. Proud father.



    Last edited by Mr.Maim; 03-13-2018 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    My understanding is that the tubes were originally papered as MKII from Wilson. Don's shop welds the slots up and re-cuts them. When built and transferred from the SOT who had the tubes built by Don's Gun Shop, a letter is included with the Form-3 requesting that the model name be changed. The Form-3 approved for transfer now says "MK4" in box 3(d).
    Anyone remember the names of the guys who got a stint in the big house for doing essentially the same thing?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Anyone remember the names of the guys who got a stint in the big house for doing essentially the same thing?
    Yeah, except the ATF NFA branch received a Form-3 with a correction letter and approved a corrected Form-3, so there's that.

    I think you need to check the dictionary for the definition of "essentially the same" because this is not even remotely the same. Take your hyperbole elsewhere.

    Last edited by Mr.Maim; 03-13-2018 at 12:14 AM.

  12. #32
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    congrats on the gun.....i thought anything except a DLO tube was a Stenling???

    at $10k it doesnt matter what it is....its a bargain and im sure a fine shooting gun

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    Yeah, except the ATF NFA branch received a Form-3 with a correction letter and approved a corrected Form-3, so there's that.
    The ATF approved my DLO tube Form-3 as a MK-IV. The second transfer they approved the Form-3 but said I had to "correct" it to a MK-II. After numerous phone calls (to DLO and ATF), submitted letters and pictures, I got them to correct their end to show it as a MK-IV on the Form-4. The ATF screwed up (DLO did what they were supposed to). Just sayin' keep an eye on them. Approving it once doesn't mean they won't try to change it later.
    Looks like a nice one. My MK-IV and MK-V are still my favorite guns. Enjoy it!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    congrats on the gun.....i thought anything except a DLO tube was a Stenling???

    at $10k it doesnt matter what it is....its a bargain and im sure a fine shooting gun
    Thank you Battering ram, and thank you for your responses earlier on when I started this thread. Your input was helpful in me making an informed decision and purchase. I declined several other firearms before my final purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dak© View Post
    The ATF approved my DLO tube Form-3 as a MK-IV. The second transfer they approved the Form-3 but said I had to "correct" it to a MK-II. After numerous phone calls (to DLO and ATF), submitted letters and pictures, I got them to correct their end to show it as a MK-IV on the Form-4. The ATF screwed up (DLO did what they were supposed to). Just sayin' keep an eye on them. Approving it once doesn't mean they won't try to change it later.
    Looks like a nice one. My MK-IV and MK-V are still my favorite guns. Enjoy it!
    Thank you Super Dak for posting.

    I've wanted a Sterling for a long time, and I can't wait to shoot it/them!
    Last edited by Mr.Maim; 03-13-2018 at 01:47 PM.

  15. #35
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    All the DLO tubes were papered Mk2. When they arrived, Goug would always say BATF made a mistake it it should be registered as a Mk4. Whatever. When I had KGB build out my Mk5, I sent photos, descriptions, meaurements, etc to the director of the BATF. It took a long time, but they finially acknoepwledged my request and amended the registry to correctly reflect the gun’s L34A1 configuration.

    Going back about ten years ago, there was plenty of discussion and speculation about the origins of Mk2 papered tubes with correct cocking slots for Sterlings. Sten Mk2 parts kits were plentiful and cheap pre 1986 and Sterling parts kits were almost unobtainable. It’s a mystery why manufacturers would paper so many Mk2 tubes prior to the May 19 cutoff date. Dan Shea posted some actual numbers of Douglas Lawrence Offinger’s registered builds, tunes, and side plates. There were no Sterling tubes listed. Some Mk2 tubes have had the slots welded up and others have mysteriously transformed themselves into Sterling tubes with correct cocking slot locations. What hasn’t changed is the original Mk2 registration. I’ve noted five different marking locations on Doug’s Mk2 “Sterling” tubes. Most of us reached our own conclusions. Dig deep. The information is here if yiu have an open mind and read between the lines.

    I’m sure by now DGS has figured out how to build a good Sterling. They always looked very nice, but they didn’t always run well. My primary issue is with his honesty. Again, that information is contained in this forum if you care to dig, or perhaps Andy will come long and fill in some of the blanks if he’s so inclined.

    Anyway... Looks like a great price for a smooth running subgun. Congrats!
    Last edited by Vegas SMG; 03-13-2018 at 05:39 PM.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    All the DLO tubes were papered Mk2. When they arrived, Goug would always say BATF made a mistake it it should be registered as a Mk4. Whatever. When I had KGB build out my Mk5, I sent photos, descriptions, meaurements, etc to the director of the BATF. It took a long time, but they finially acknoepwledged my request and amended the registry to correctly reflect the gun’s L34A1 configuration.

    Going back about ten years ago, there was plenty of discussion and speculation about the origins of Mk2 papered tubes with correct cocking slots for Sterlings. Sten Mk2 parts kits were plentiful and cheap pre 1986 and Sterling parts kits were almost unobtainable. It’s a mystery why manufacturers would paper so many Mk2 tubes prior to the May 19 cutoff date. Dan Shea posted some actual numbers of Douglas Lawrence Offinger’s registered builds, tunes, and side plates. There were no Sterling tubes listed. Some Mk2 tubes have had the slots welded up and others have mysteriously transformed themselves into Sterling tubes with correct cocking slot locations. What hasn’t changed is the original Mk2 registration. I’ve noted five different marking locations on Doug’s Mk2 “Sterling” tubes. Most of us reached our own conclusions. Dig deep. The information is here if yiu have an open mind and read between the lines.

    I’m sure by now DGS has figured out how to build a good Sterling. They always looked very nice, but they didn’t always run well. My primary issue is with his honesty. Again, that information is contained in this forum if you care to dig, or perhaps Andy will come long and fill in some of the blanks if he’s so inclined.

    Anyway... Looks like a great price for a smooth running subgun. Congrats!
    Great post! Thanks Vegas!

    To your first point about you amending the registry for your Sterling: this is exactly what the seller of mine did. Apparently as an 02/07 it's less of a PITA.

    I don't disagree with you about DGS's reputation which is what prompted me in my opening post of this thread to write: "2e) I am aware of Don Quinnell and will not be considering builds by him." integrity is important to me too, but decided that at the end of the day these are tube guns that can easily be made right.

    Thanks! I can't wait to shoot 'em!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    All the DLO tubes were papered Mk2. When they arrived, Goug would always say BATF made a mistake it it should be registered as a Mk4. Whatever. When I had KGB build out my Mk5, I sent photos, descriptions, meaurements, etc to the director of the BATF. It took a long time, but they finially acknoepwledged my request and amended the registry to correctly reflect the gun’s L34A1 configuration...
    Yes they were all MK-II initially. My point was that the BATF made the mistake on the 2nd transfer, which they admitted to me. The first inspector approved it as a (changed) MK-IV but didn't update their files. Andy said not to do anything, leave it as a MK-II, but I wanted it correct. Why would I leave it as a MK-II? My tube, that is engraved MK4, should probably be registered as such to avoid any chance of confusion/issue in the future (like when the gov'ment stormtroopers in to confiscate my legal firearms and asks "vhere iz zee MK-II zat ve show you ownzing?" ) But that's just MHO based on my experience with only two DLO tubes. Just 'cus the BATF approves it once as something doesn't mean they will again. I know of another MG that was approved once, then confiscated during the 2nd transfer and I don't think the buyer ever got his money back. But that's not a DLO or Sterling story, so...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    ...I don't disagree with you about DGS's reputation which is what prompted me in my opening post of this thread to write: "2e) I am aware of Don Quinnell and will not be considering builds by him." integrity is important to me too, but decided that at the end of the day these are tube guns that can easily be made right.
    Thanks! I can't wait to shoot 'em!
    Don Quinell. Stand up guy.
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    http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showth...Sterling-tubes)
    Last edited by Vegas SMG; 03-13-2018 at 09:37 PM.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Maim View Post
    Yeah, except the ATF NFA branch received a Form-3 with a correction letter and approved a corrected Form-3, so there's that.
    They also had approved Form-3’s.

    They were two FFL’s and they transferred the guns back and forth to each other. Each time they did a transfer they would make a change that was approved by BATF. So, the guns became other guns that were more desirable and more expensive.

    You don’t need to be rude. It’s just history. Everyone knows the BATFE is not consistent. Times change. Who knows what the BATFE is going to say is legal or not next? Maybe what was ruled illegal for them is ok now? I don’t know. A lot of the BATFE stuff depends on the agent(s) who are assigned to the State you are in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas SMG View Post
    Some Mk2 tubes have had the slots welded up and others have mysteriously transformed themselves into Sterling tubes with correct cocking slot locations. What hasn’t changed is the original Mk2 registration. I’ve noted five different marking locations on Doug’s Mk2 “Sterling” tubes. Most of us reached our own conclusions.
    About two years ago the BATFE started to “correct” the registrations back to the original “Mk2.” If “Mk4”, “Sterling”, “Mk4 Sterling” or “Mk5 Sterling” was on the form, after the transfer it came back as “Mk2.”

    I’ve always been told welding up the cocking slot was verboten. But who knows? Maybe it’s kosha in Florida now? I know it’s not allowed in New Hampshire.

    BTW, I talked with Doug on the phone recently. He answered all my questions very directly. He can recall all the numbers produced of each item he made.

    I am with you on Don Quinell. Aside from the honesty issue, he has turned out some atrocious stuff over the years. I guess it depends on who he gets to do the work. Some folks have good luck. Others not so much. The good news is they are cheap. You can have one rebuilt by John and still come out ok on the cost.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    i thought anything except a DLO tube was a Stenling???
    Nope...P.A.W.S. is a Sterling-spec tube.

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