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Thread: Franklin Armory does it AGAIN..

  1. #21
    Registered User StooperZero's Avatar
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    imho, let the "operators" and youtube gheys have fun with another ridiculous toy they can get a bro' boner out of cause they didn't have to pay the $200.

  2. #22
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    I've paid my $200 and one of my favorite range toys is my 7.5" AR-15. And I have kept it very simple with NO railed hand guards or flashlights.
    I had a bump stock on it for a while but didn't like it because you can't close the stock. Maybe a Echo-2 trigger later this year.


    BISHOP

  3. #23
    Registered User Ben Walker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady View Post
    The definition of shotgun is essentially the same as a rifle, except it has a smoothbore and expels a single OR multiple shot projectiles with a single pull of the trigger. Taking an AR platform rifle and putting a smoothbore bbl on it (from the factory) merely puts it in the shotgun definition instead of rifle. The shockwave and the AR based "firearm" workarounds are workarounds because they lack the buttstock and are not intended to be fired from the shoulder. FA says this has a for real buttstock so it would be designed to be fired from the shoulder.

    If my theory is correct, the semi position would be a release trigger, you pull the trigger, no projectile is expelled. You release the trigger, a single projectile is expelled. Rifle (and shotgun) definition says it has to expel a projectile on the pull, not the release. Now we get into the totally separate definition of MG on the Binary position. The language in that reg says an MG fires more than one shot for a "single function of the trigger". Note it doesn't specify pull or release, just "function". ATF has ruled a pull and a release are separate functions, thus pull bang release bang is not an MG. OTOH, if you go back to the rifle definition, you can't pull a trigger unless it is released first, right? I think they used this logic to say the Binary function makes it expel 2 projectiles for each pull as a release is required to make it fire on the pull. 2 shots per single pull of the trigger instead of 1, not a rifle per the definition in the regs. Over 26" OAL, not an AOW. Legally just a Title 1 Firearm. That's the only loophole I can find in the language of the regs.

    Or I could be totally wrong, I guess we'll find out once Shot opens.
    I tend to agree with the 2 shots . Only logical way I can see it happening.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nklf View Post
    Release triggers are not a natural movement. I used to shoot trap with some guys that had release triggers on their Kriegohf shotguns. I always wondered how many accidental discharges they had when they went bird hunting with a standard trigger. You can learn to use a release trigger, but it is hard to switch back and forth.
    IIRC, there used to be some single shot "target" pistols that fired on release of the trigger.

  5. #25
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    The answer is simple and does another "bend" in definition.

    Here is the real answer. Seriously, here it is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbIoRC7wSXY


    BISHOP

  6. #26
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    I don't think this will fly . BATF screwed this one up . Even our guy in the link admitted that a early , straight rifled bore was rifled . I see a repeat of a stock spring fiasco coming .
    Chris

  7. #27
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    What a waste of money. Straight rifling with special ammo. SMGDH.

  8. #28
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    For those that would rather read the details rather than watch a YouTube, they're here:
    http://www.recoilweb.com/franklin-ar...ed-133042.html
    Now hosting: www.MAC-11.info

  9. #29
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    Interesting but not for me. By the way, the youtube guy was right.

  10. #30
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    Great, they have re-invented the Musket! I thought they were patent pending, if they get granted a patent for this I'm going to try to patent the wheel.

    OTOH, now that ATF says straight grooves in a bbl are not rifle or smoothbore, that opens the door for the Shockwave to be stocked once someone scratches some straight grooves down the bbl. Straight grooves in a shotgun bbl actually improve the patterning as it keeps the wad and shot from spinning as it travels down the bore.

    Someone does need to submit a release trigger design as a non-SBR "firearm" though, according to the letter of the law it would not be a rifle.

  11. #31
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    By revolutionary I guess the meant revolutionary war
    God, Family, Guns.....Life is Good! ROMANS 10:9-10

  12. #32
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    I like that idea of making a rifled barrel a part of the upper receiver so the length of the entire upper counts towards the 16" limit.

    If the upper is around 7" and you have a fixed/pinned flash hider you can get away with a super shorty without a stamp.

  13. #33
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    The receiver/barrel unit would require a redesign; ATF requires 16" from muzzle to bolt face in closed position.
    It could possibly work if the bolt did not protrude from the buffer tube(maybe a heavy carbine buffer in a rifle length tube?), and the upper fed from a side magwell located at the rear of the upper.
    That would be an interesting project for sure!

  14. #34
    Registered User StooperZero's Avatar
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    Survey says : GHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!

  15. #35
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    I give them an A for effort.... But super dumb idea.... However, death by 1000 cuts to the nfa sounds good to me. Hopefully this sets a precedent and gets the ball rolling for something else cooler and actually useful.

    I don't see this gun to be some sort of new awesome game changer. I do however see it as the camel getting it's nose under the tent... And hopefully it leads somewhere good.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackjack View Post
    I give them an A for effort.... But super dumb idea.... However, death by 1000 cuts to the nfa sounds good to me. Hopefully this sets a precedent and gets the ball rolling for something else cooler and actually useful.

    I don't see this gun to be some sort of new awesome game changer. I do however see it as the camel getting it's nose under the tent... And hopefully it leads somewhere good.
    Stocked Mossberg Shockwaves and Remington Tac14s, all you would need to do is cut straight grooves down the length of the bbl. Not a shotgun, not a rifle, and straight grooving usually improves patterning in a shotgun.

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