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Thread: Uzi Pro SBR 922r

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    Uzi Pro SBR 922r

    I’m interested in making an SBR from an Uzi Pro pistol. I’ve seen a few posted online so I know it’s been done but how are people satisfying the 922r requirement? My understanding is that the following highlighted 922r parts apply to the Uzi Pro. Is this correct and, if so, were can US parts be found? I have a US made barrel but all the sears I see are for the full/mini size. I've also read conflicting opinions on the operating rod.

    Thanks,
    Tony


    Receiver
    Barrel
    Barrel extensions
    Mounting Block (Trunnion)
    Muzzle attachments
    Bolt
    Bolt Carriers
    Operating Rods
    Gas pistons
    Trigger Housing
    Trigger
    Hammer
    Sear
    Disconnector
    Butt Stocks
    Pistol Grip
    Forearm
    Magazine Housing
    Magazine Followers
    Magazine Floor Plates

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    This is an interesting topic, and I hope it inspires some useful discussion. If these parts are available, I would like to learn; “from where.” However, I think that you will not be able to find enough US made parts. So, unless you are going to make a whole bunch of parts yourself, what you are planning may not be possible at this time.

    Perhaps someone will put together a “922r compliance kit” for the Uzi Pro as they have done for the CZ Scorpion? https://www.riflegear.com/p-5162-cz-...stock-kit.aspx

    A question it would be nice to get a final “once and for all” answer form the ATF on is:
    Does 922r apply to making an imported pistol into an SBR without changing out parts or not? Or more specifically, would the manufacture of an SBR from a legally imported Uzi Pro pistol, with all foreign made parts constitute an action prohibited by 922r or not?

    922(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
    (1)
    the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (2)
    the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

    A person doing what you have proposed would not be assembling a rifle from parts, but would only be adding a stock to an already assembled pistol (only after form 1 approval of course) in order to manufacture an SBR. The lines between assembly and manufacture seem to be getting blurred in the ATF regulations. To expand on this reasoning, I may legally manufacture a new receiver, and if I never assemble it into anything; it won’t be either a pistol, or a rifle, it will just be a “new receiver”. Therefore it is “assembly” which in this context is regulated by 922r, and not “manufacture”.

    Is a “short barrel rifle” which is an NFA item still simultaneously a “rifle” which otherwise would mean it has a minimum of a 16” barrel, and also a minimum overall length of 26” - or not? A “rifle” is, by the normally accepted definition, not an NFA item.

    Therefore it seems obvious that Federal Laws and Regulations are now internally inconsistent with themselves.

    I spent a couple hours searching on this topic, and it seems that there are definitely conflicting opinions, even from the ATF itself. The “most recent” discussions I found said that manufacture of an SBR does mandate 922r compliance.

    Here is an attorney who seems to say it is a violation (but discusses much “gray area” before making that determination): https://johnpierceesq.com/does-922r-...ported-pistol/ It is interesting to read all these letters, as it seems the ATF really just refuses to say one way or the other.

    Here is another (caution this is an older post) who says that it is not a violation: https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/...y-to-sbrs.html

    Lying somewhere between these two opinions, it seems to me that YouTube is replete with examples of approved SBRs (on form 1s) made from imported pistols, which could not possibly have been assembled with a sufficient number of US made parts to be 922r compliant. I have never heard of any of these form 1 applications being rejected on the basis of lack of 922r compliance, nor of any such supposedly “non-complainant” SBRs later being reclaimed by the ATF. Has anyone here heard of this?

    A the risk of making things even more confusing, I will ask a third question. In order to set the stage, I need to point out the obvious fact, that with an imported pistol, both the manufacture, and the assembly have already occurred, prior to your legal ownership. Can the pistol now be assembled for a second time? Are these so called “922r compliance kits” really any more compliant? Or are people just modifying the parts configuration of their pistol? In other words, how can it be legal for IWI to make it? Assemble it? Import it? and for your FFL dealer to sell it to you? And legal for you to posses it as a pistol? Then somehow it now has become illegal when you legally (via approved form 1) add a stock to it to legally manufacture an SBR? 922R was about regulating the assembly of foreign parts onto a US manufactured receiver. But that is not what is occurring when someone SBRs a foreign made pistol, is it? Wouldn’t it still be a foreign made receiver? And thus still be in violation of 922r? That is if 922r applies. But if 922r applied, this receiver could not have been legally imported! It was imported, therefore it (logically) can’t apply, can it? How would a reasonable and prudent person view this quandary?

    I don’t think any member of this forum wants to run afoul of the law. So we avoid doing things which seem like really cool projects, waiting for clarity from the ATF, and wading through confusing and seemingly contradictory letters and rulings.


    In the meantime, I think that I will just plan on making a Mini Uzi pistol, with a folding brace.

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    Thanks for the reply Moab. Another debatable portion of 922r is the term “Identical to any rifle or shotgun”. All the words matter in a statute and identical means exactly alike. If one or more parts are not identical, such as the stock, fore grip, pistol grip, and barrel length in the Uzi Pro example, would that exempt the rifle?

    It would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone on this site that has made an Uzi Pro SBR but they may not want to comment on what many consider a gray area.

    However, my original question was about the practical issue of getting US made parts with the assumption that 922r does apply. It doesn’t appear that the parts are available at this time so I’ll put this project on hold unless any machinist here are interested in making a sear, magazine followers and floor plates.

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    Can you use US made mags?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    Can you use US made mags?
    That would work but the only US made mags for the Uzi that I'm aware of are ProMags which aren't known for reliability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSPC View Post
    That would work but the only US made mags for the Uzi that I'm aware of are ProMags which aren't known for reliability.
    ProMags might be a source for the floorplates and followers, if you can't get them separately.

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    TSPC; Are you intending to make an SBR on a Form 1 or are you intending a Class 2 SOT to make one for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG34_Dan View Post
    TSPC; Are you intending to make an SBR on a Form 1 or are you intending a Class 2 SOT to make one for you?
    I was going to do a Form 1 and add a TitleII Rod Stock Conversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    ProMags might be a source for the floorplates and followers, if you can't get them separately.
    That got me thinking. I have some Brownells AR15 9mm style magazines. I just took one apart and with some minor fitting the follower and the base plate fit the Uzi Pro mag. With the barrel already changed to a US made barrel that puts me a 9 or 10 foreign parts depending on whether the operating rod counts or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSPC View Post
    That got me thinking. I have some Brownells AR15 9mm style magazines. I just took one apart and with some minor fitting the follower and the base plate fit the Uzi Pro mag. With the barrel already changed to a US made barrel that puts me a 9 or 10 foreign parts depending on whether the operating rod counts or not.
    Since the 9mm AR mags are modified Uzi mags, can you modify the AR mags to work in the UZI PRO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    Since the 9mm AR mags are modified Uzi mags, can you modify the AR mags to work in the UZI PRO?
    There's a ridge all the way down the back of the AR mags that prevent them from inserting into the Uzi mag well.

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    Not to encourage willful disobedience of an unenforceable law, but how does one tell the country of origin on a stamped steel part that is entirely unmarked? 2 parts side by side and one is manufactured in the US and the other overseas. How does someone, anyone know which is which. Is it because I told you it was manufactured here? The vast majority of "922R Compliant" parts fall in this unmarked category.
    Then one must ask themselves, in the near 28 years the law has been in effect, has there ever even been a conviction for such a law?...

    Just thinking out loud here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue70chevelle View Post
    Not to encourage willful disobedience of an unenforceable law, but how does one tell the country of origin on a stamped steel part that is entirely unmarked? 2 parts side by side and one is manufactured in the US and the other overseas. How does someone, anyone know which is which. Is it because I told you it was manufactured here? The vast majority of "922R Compliant" parts fall in this unmarked category.
    Then one must ask themselves, in the near 28 years the law has been in effect, has there ever even been a conviction for such a law?...

    Just thinking out loud here.
    The base plate is stamped with Brownells logo but the follower and barrel have no markings. The follower is not visually the same as the Uzi follower so it could be identified as a Brownells product. What I would do is keep the receipts in the range bag with the firearm. I don’t agree that it’s unenforceable. I have read of at least two convictions for a 922r violation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSPC View Post
    I have read of at least two convictions for a 922r violation.
    Links?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sousa View Post
    Links?
    You can do a search for 922r violations and you’ll find them. You may have to wade through some BS but it's out there. There’s no proof though, just stories and comments with no documentation, same with the claim that there have been no 922r prosecutions.
    Last edited by TSPC; 08-08-2020 at 07:49 PM.

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    I know this is an old thread, but I want to provide a couple of updates. TSPC, your 922(r) parts count is correct except for one thing. The trigger housing and pistol grip are the same part. Therefore, it only counts as one or the other, not both. See pages 48 & 49 in the manual.
    https://iwi.us/wp-content/uploads/20...05-09-30_1.pdf

    Some good news is that IWI has the real UZI Pro buttstocks in stock.
    https://iwi.us/product/uzi-pro-stock/

    With the buttstock installed, you'd be at 12 foreign parts. I'm thinking that a US made floor plate is easy to take care of one of them. Does anyone know where to get a US made barrel? A US made tri-lug barrel would be even better.

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    I've seen a couple of barrels listed as being for both the Micro Uzi and the Uzi Pro. I've seen other barrels listed as being for the Micro Uzi. Are all Micro Uzi barrels compatible with the Uzi Pro?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    I've seen a couple of barrels listed as being for both the Micro Uzi and the Uzi Pro. I've seen other barrels listed as being for the Micro Uzi. Are all Micro Uzi barrels compatible with the Uzi Pro?
    Micro Uzi and Uzi Pro barrels are interchangeable.

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    Thanks. Confirmation is a good thing. I do have one more question. Are there full auto Micro Uzi barrels and semi auto Micro Uzi barrels or are they the same dimensionaly?

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    The irony here is you put a brace on it and shoot it shoulder fired and you are not breaking any law(so far) yet if you pay the ATF 200 dollars and give them a photo and fingerprints
    you still can't put a stock on it because of the 922R. Just by trying to do what they really want, that is registration of the firearm with a solid paper trail you still can be a felon
    because of another effed up law.

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