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Thread: Open bolt SINGLE SHOT ONLY build???

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Open bolt SINGLE SHOT ONLY build???

    Hi all,
    Would something like this be legal? Some background, a few years ago I bought a PM-63 parts kit from Apex with with the idea of having it as a cool project for the range. I see that converting these to semi auto is the common thing to do, and sometimes they turn out successful. But the thing is is that the smallest magazine capacity for these is 15 rounds (I live in Connecticut, so that's a no go with our current 10 round magazine limit) so there's no way for me to import one of these. And if I were to somehow get a magazine, the whole build to convert these to semi auto seems like a big pain with all of the limited space you get in the receiver. So I had the idea of just making this single shot only, but leave it open bolt so I don't have to mess around with the other parts on this. I did some research for some time but I keep getting a mix of answers of people saying it's either legal or illegal. With the ATF, they consider any open bolt firearm to be readily convertible to full auto, but would this also count for an single shot only?

    Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any combination of parts from which a machine
    gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


    I thought of blocking out the mag well with the aluminum welding jig I made, and having it permanently fixed into there.

  2. #2
    Registered User Mackjack's Avatar
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    Look up the cobray terminator shotgun

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    Registered User Mackjack's Avatar
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    Here's a forgotten weapons link https://youtu.be/WnpOis10NyQ

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    The "Terminator" shotgun really isn't an open bolt weapon.....it has a fixed breech and is manually operated (no semi automatic functioning...cases must be manually ejected)

    RPB tried to market a single shot, open bolt M11 .380 in 1982 .....the ATF quickly put an end to it...

    If you welded a steel block.....a sort of "feed tray" in the mag well that may fly.....designed in such a way that its removal would require destruction of the frame/receiver.

    I've shot a live PM-63, and can tell you the relationship of the ejection port (when the slide is retracted) to the chamber would make single shot loading all but impossible....

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villafuego View Post
    The "Terminator" shotgun really isn't an open bolt weapon.....it has a fixed breech and is manually operated (no semi automatic functioning...cases must be manually ejected)

    RPB tried to market a single shot, open bolt M11 .380 in 1982 .....the ATF quickly put an end to it...

    If you welded a steel block.....a sort of "feed tray" in the mag well that may fly.....designed in such a way that its removal would require destruction of the frame/receiver.

    I've shot a live PM-63, and can tell you the relationship of the ejection port (when the slide is retracted) to the chamber would make single shot loading all but impossible....
    Yeah, I remember reading up about those awhile back, I thought the only issue the ATF had with those was that they used a hollow magazine as a magazine block? I heard that it was pretty easy to get that magazine reactivated again. And that's what I was kinda thinking with the welding jig, I'd just have to maybe make another one out of steel to weld it or just figure out a way to make the aluminum one part of the receiver.
    The ejection port is certainly small, no doubt about that, though my pinkie finger is just skinny enough to fit through and push a casing into the chamber, so I was okay on that part.

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    Registered User xdamagedx's Avatar
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    I believe Serbu is working of a single shot open bolt pistol.

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    There are some 22lr rifles that are Open Bolt Single Shot, but they were made like in the 50s/60s, IIRC.
    I see them occasionally at gun shops.

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdamagedx View Post
    I believe Serbu is working of a single shot open bolt pistol.
    Are you talking about the GB-22 and GB-380?


    I think these get the "okay" from the ATF since it's not designed to accept a magazine. But since my parts kit was originally designed to accept a magazine I don't think I'd be able to get away with it that easy like Serbu can with that design. Though, maybe I'm wrong about that?

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    So it seems like this discussion is dead :^/ but I did some more research on this question, and I found another guy who did it with a CZ-26 kit the same way I'm describing of doing mine.

    Here's the link to his build:
    http://guns.tannerfrisby.com/misc-gu...-26-kit-build/

    I probably didn't look hard enough, but I don't think he ever got a response from the ATF regarding if they gave him the green light.

    And another thing too, just a random thought I had recently. Let's say I want to make it magazine fed, but not semi-auto. What if I were to add weight to the bolt (maybe insert a tungsten or brass bar into the rear of the bolt) and replace the stock spring for a stronger one, so the bolt won't cycle back when a round is fired and I'd have to pull it back in order to fire the next one. This would technically still be legal right? since it's still manual reloading and not automatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalPepzi View Post
    So it seems like this discussion is dead :^/ but I did some more research on this question, and I found another guy who did it with a CZ-26 kit the same way I'm describing of doing mine.

    Here's the link to his build:
    http://guns.tannerfrisby.com/misc-gu...-26-kit-build/

    I probably didn't look hard enough, but I don't think he ever got a response from the ATF regarding if they gave him the green light.

    And another thing too, just a random thought I had recently. Let's say I want to make it magazine fed, but not semi-auto. What if I were to add weight to the bolt (maybe insert a tungsten or brass bar into the rear of the bolt) and replace the stock spring for a stronger one, so the bolt won't cycle back when a round is fired and I'd have to pull it back in order to fire the next one. This would technically still be legal right? since it's still manual reloading and not automatic.
    There are ways to.make a Straight Pull Bolt Action, but I'm not sure if it would be legal in your state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalPepzi View Post
    So it seems like this discussion is dead :^/ but I did some more research on this question, and I found another guy who did it with a CZ-26 kit the same way I'm describing of doing mine.

    Here's the link to his build:
    http://guns.tannerfrisby.com/misc-gu...-26-kit-build/

    I probably didn't look hard enough, but I don't think he ever got a response from the ATF regarding if they gave him the green light.

    And another thing too, just a random thought I had recently. Let's say I want to make it magazine fed, but not semi-auto. What if I were to add weight to the bolt (maybe insert a tungsten or brass bar into the rear of the bolt) and replace the stock spring for a stronger one, so the bolt won't cycle back when a round is fired and I'd have to pull it back in order to fire the next one. This would technically still be legal right? since it's still manual reloading and not automatic.
    ATF banned open bolt semis because they were just a disconnector disable away from being converted to an MG, IOW too easy to convert. Your stronger spring version is just a spring replacement beyond that. Do the math.

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    He got his response and they kept the gun.

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    There are ways to.make a Straight Pull Bolt Action, but I'm not sure if it would be legal in your state.
    As far as I know, straight-pull bolt actions are perfectly legal as long as they don't have any illegal features (like more than 10 round capacity). I remember not too long ago seeing a couple of K31 rifles and a Browning Maral for sale at my local range.

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady View Post
    ATF banned open bolt semis because they were just a disconnector disable away from being converted to an MG, IOW too easy to convert. Your stronger spring version is just a spring replacement beyond that. Do the math.
    I know the semi autos are illegal, that's where I had the idea of a straight-pull single shot. I know the spring itself isn't enough to keep the bolt from cycling, though it would certainly help with the process, that's why I would permanently keep a tungsten weight into the rear of the bolt to bump up the weight (maybe weld that in there too), there's quite a lot of room in the back if I take out the rate reducer.

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajun 22 View Post
    He got his response and they kept the gun.
    The ATF kept it? huh, that's a bummer, I would've figured they'd be okay with it since it didn't incorporate a magazine; I mean, it seems the ATF are perfectly okay with those Serbu pistols for the fact that they're single shot only, his overall design really wasn't that different at all if you ask me. I guess only some people have luck with getting approval letters on these single shot only builds :/

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    His reply letter is at the bottom of the page in a PDF file. They determined it an MG.

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    Registered User CrystalPepzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cajun 22 View Post
    His reply letter is at the bottom of the page in a PDF file. They determined it an MG.
    Ohh, I see it now. I just kinda skimmed through it towards the end, must've missed it there. So I'm guessing I'll have to think of something else since they didn't approve of his idea? I'll have to brainstorm for something else then

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