UZI Talk Forums
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Question?

  1. #1
    Registered User KickStand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    311

    Question?

    How much can you repair a registered machine gun receiver?
    Would it be legal to cut a large section off and re weld a new section?

    Example: M1a / m14 could you cut the front receiver section off where the lugs and barrel threading is and reweld a new section.

    I was talking to a find and this topic came up. I speculated that as long as the original serial number and maker marks have not been altered it MIGHT be ok to weld another section.

    IM NOT GOING TO DO THIS, nor do I personal know anybody that has an M1a / m14. I'm just looking for clarification / legality.

  2. #2
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Louisana
    Posts
    1,542
    There was some talk about this on another forum and the popular answer was "it depends on the percentage of the receiver that actually needs to be replaced". How much is a guess before ATF says you are making a new one. And do they even have to know?

  3. #3
    Registered User KickStand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    311
    Thanks for the fast response. Your statement makes sense; however, I would think since you would be keeping the serial number and the makers mark it wouldn't be a new receiver regardless of percentage. I guess a safe bet would be replacing a maximum of 49%.

    Anymore input would be greatly appreciated. If you could link me to that form and thread that would be great. I'll try to find it though.


    Great question and maybe the right question, do they even have to know.
    Last edited by KickStand; 05-16-2018 at 09:24 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by KickStand View Post
    Thanks for the fast response. Your statement makes sense; however, I would think since you would be keeping the serial number and the makers mark it wouldn't be a new receiver regardless of percentage. I guess a safe bet would be replacing a maximum of 49%.

    Anymore input would be greatly appreciated. If you could link me to that form and thread that would be great. I'll try to find it though.


    Great question and maybe the right question, do they even have to know.
    I thought that 20% of the original must be retained but I don't remember why I think that. The name Sterling Nixon comes to mind as well. Not sure why.

    Trick question: If one were to melt down a registered M14 receiver, re-cast/re-forge it as an M14 receiver, and re-duplicate all markings that were previously on it before the melt down, how much of the "new" receiver is original material?

  5. #5
    UZI Talk Supporter
    sniperdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    3,829
    Good question! (I'm in no way qualified to answer, but it's an interesting subject; if pressed, I'd probably say the hated words "ask ATF"

  6. #6
    Registered User rentprop1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    West Central Florida
    Posts
    367
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRenegade86 View Post

    Trick question: If one were to melt down a registered M14 receiver, re-cast/re-forge it as an M14 receiver, and re-duplicate all markings that were previously on it before the melt down, how much of the "new" receiver is original material?
    well since you can't alter a serial number ( by melting or other ) I'd say , NO

  7. #7
    UZI Talk Supporter
    root's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,557
    Even if you were some how able to keep the serial number melting and refining one receiver isn't enough steel to do even 1/2 of a receiver due to the process.

    Try it sometime take a torch melt a screwdriver into a puddle then try to bang it back out into a screwdriver.

    You'll find you are missing most of your metal due to slag and oxidation.
    In other words yes you will have metal left but only enough for a mini screwdriver not the original size you started with.
    Same applies to the M14 in question.
    If you were lucky you'd have a tippman size M14 LOL

    Rich

  8. #8
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Battering ram NIB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    4,126
    i think any damage that could be done to any receiver could be fixed....your not going to cut your receiver in 1/2....odds are 1/2 wont blow off while shooting it...and if it does the last thing you will care about is your gun while 1/2 your head is gone..

    i think its a question to a problem that doesn't exist

  9. #9
    UZI Talk Life Member
    Hey...'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,210
    ^ I can think of an example.

    I remember a member here stating his 380 m11 lower was becoming bent in the rear half probably from converting from small magwell to large and then back again. The heat somehow had an effect on it's strength. He had to repeatedly bend it back into alignment with wood after shooting it for a while.

    How to you repair that? Do you cut off the side with the serial and weld it to a new fitted flat? Would that 30% (of the original receiver) piece be acceptable since the factory markings are all there?

  10. #10
    Registered User CapnMorgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Campbell, Oh
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey... View Post
    ^ I can think of an example.

    I remember a member here stating his 380 m11 lower was becoming bent in the rear half probably from converting from small magwell to large and then back again. The heat somehow had an effect on it's strength. He had to repeatedly bend it back into alignment with wood after shooting it for a while.

    How to you repair that? Do you cut off the side with the serial and weld it to a new fitted flat? Would that 30% (of the original receiver) piece be acceptable since the factory markings are all there?
    I'd just have it heat treated

  11. #11
    UZI Talk Life Member
    Hey...'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,210
    but that doesn't go with the narrative of this thread.... to hack something.

  12. #12
    Registered User garandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,993
    "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

  13. #13
    Registered User KickStand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by garandman View Post
    "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
    I would be leaning this way if I had some serious damage.

  14. #14
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Battering ram NIB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey... View Post
    ^ I can think of an example.

    I remember a member here stating his 380 m11 lower was becoming bent in the rear half probably from converting from small magwell to large and then back again. The heat somehow had an effect on it's strength. He had to repeatedly bend it back into alignment with wood after shooting it for a while.

    How to you repair that? Do you cut off the side with the serial and weld it to a new fitted flat? Would that 30% (of the original receiver) piece be acceptable since the factory markings are all there?
    to me? yes

    whats it hurting in the ATF's eyes??.....your not changing the gun to some other gun.....your mac is still the same mac and no one would know

  15. #15
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Louisana
    Posts
    1,542
    Read this thread. There is a well versed individual that states what is allowed. Nothing in writing so it's worth what you paid for it.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/K...ir-/23-480755/

  16. #16
    Registered User KickStand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by cajun 22 View Post
    Read this thread. There is a well versed individual that states what is allowed. Nothing in writing so it's worth what you paid for it.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/K...ir-/23-480755/
    Thanks CAJUN 22 for the link, that thread started to get off course but good opinions.
    From what I can gather is as long as the original serial number and makers marks are intact it would APPEAR to be ok. There's conflicting opinions on percentage of the replaced metal. Even if someone asked ATF, you would get several different answer and they would probably be conflicting.

    As I see it, if you had an m16 that literally blew up but the serial number and the manufacture marks have not been destroyed (even the slightest). Then you could buy an 80% lower and cut out the section of the serial number and makers mark weld that into the 80% lower and you could finish milling out the rest.

    Again I'm NOT saying this is right or legal. We all know opinions are like butt holes.

  17. #17
    UZI Talk Life Member
    rybread's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    U.S. F'N A
    Posts
    1,838
    In your hypothetical situation, Id ask for forgiveness before asking for permission- you would not be creating a new MG.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by rentprop1 View Post
    well since you can't alter a serial number ( by melting or other ) I'd say , NO
    Putting aside the legality of marking alterations, how much of the melted and remanufactured receiver is original?

    Hint: Think back to science class.
    Last edited by MontanaRenegade86; 05-18-2018 at 08:39 PM.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Please consider becoming an UZI Talk Supporter.