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Thread: Max11/15 IRM vs ARRM

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndustrialRescue View Post
    I'm drilling the hole, I really don't care. OH the noes! An easily welded hole!!! In what's STILL a cheap, shitty piece of (now super expensive) welded sheet metal, lol. It's a MAC, not a bringback.
    Let's be clear, it is not the sheetmetal that is expensive. It is the Government paperwork that says that piece of sheetmetal with that serial number on it is what is valuable. To transfer the market value from one individual to another, it is the government paperwork that actually transfers that value. If the sheetmetal is stolen, that sheetmetal only has the market value to the person or entity on that government paperwork. To all others it is ten years in Federal prison, possession of stolen property, etc.

    Scott

  2. #22
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    I would go for the IRM because with the ARl recoil system you are pretty much stuck with an AR Stock. I would like to go from MAX11/15 to my regular upper with the CF-W bolt without having to take apart the AR Stock and install my favorite stock. Just more options. If you want to just use the AR Stock then go with the AR recoil system. I don't think the hole in the receiver will effect the value of the gun unless it is NIB. As long as you don't sign an agreement that keeps you from reselling your upper for a few years then you are free to sell it for a profit if you wish.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndustrialRescue View Post
    I'm drilling the hole, I really don't care. OH the noes! An easily welded hole!!! In what's STILL a cheap, shitty piece of (now super expensive) welded sheet metal, lol. It's a MAC, not a bringback.
    But drilling the hole means if you ever wish to sell, market value will take a pretty good hit. Cost to weld the hole & reparkize should be factored in and letís be honest, potential buyers would rather have a non-drilled pristine transferable (even a Mac) rather than one that has been hacked up and Jerry rigged. It easily knocks $1,500 off the value of the Mac. Itís akin to refinishing a Colt M-16. IMO itís best to treat every transferable MG as an investment, YMMV.

  4. #24
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    OH boy, here we go with the holie of holies to drill or not to drill.

    Doesn't much matter as stated before these guns have been drilled and rewelded since the task.

    Buy the upper you want and be happy.

    Could always put the hole swarf in a baggie and sell it with the gun so you can honestly claim the gun comes with 100% original parts.

    In 10 years these things will be so expensive people will be hoping someone is selling 1500 less due to a welded hole.

    Rich

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMad View Post
    But drilling the hole means if you ever wish to sell, market value will take a pretty good hit. Cost to weld the hole & reparkize should be factored in and let’s be honest, potential buyers would rather have a non-drilled pristine transferable (even a Mac) rather than one that has been hacked up and Jerry rigged. It easily knocks $1,500 off the value of the Mac. It’s akin to refinishing a Colt M-16. IMO it’s best to treat every transferable MG as an investment, YMMV.
    wrong
    find a m11/9 with a hole in the back from a task/sabre conversion at $5500 and you'll be more popular than the stripper at a bachelor party.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMad View Post
    But drilling the hole means if you ever wish to sell, market value will take a pretty good hit. Cost to weld the hole & reparkize should be factored in and let’s be honest, potential buyers would rather have a non-drilled pristine transferable (even a Mac) rather than one that has been hacked up and Jerry rigged. It easily knocks $1,500 off the value of the Mac. It’s akin to refinishing a Colt M-16. IMO it’s best to treat every transferable MG as an investment, YMMV.
    The last I knew Sam could cut out the back plate, weld in a new one, and repark the receiver for $300 plus shipping. Can you back up your assertion that the market value of a M11/NINE would be diminished by $1,500 having a S.A.B.R.E. hole in the back plate? I think there is well over $15,000 difference in the market value between a Colt M16A1 and a M11/NINE. There is also the finishing processes. The aluminum M16 is gray anodized. The M11/NINE is parkerized gray steel. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is a $1,500 market value difference between a M11/NINE with a hole drilled in the back of the reciever because of the repair cost. I bought my M11/NINE in 2015. I think I bought it $300 to $400 less than market value at the time of sale. It was a local deal so there was only one stamp. YMMV.

    Scott

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffDragon View Post
    wrong
    find a m11/9 with a hole in the back from a task/sabre conversion at $5500 and you'll be more popular than the stripper at a bachelor party.
    Perhaps i’m a little “misinformed” about the actual dollar amount, how many of these macs with holes have actually sold? As brother evil wrote, as of now they could be welded & reparkerized for $300, plus shipping/insurance, plus hassle (which has a price tag on it). I know that I would not buy one, YMMV. Then again, I only have interest in M-11/9s and I’m far from a Mac expert. I do know I wouldn’t buy a Sten converted M-11/9 either, because of cost of converting back, shipping/handling & hassle... speaking of, the only M-11/9s I’ve noticed sit without selling quickly (that we’re not grossly overpriced) are the Sten converted guns, I’d put them in the same category... Even if that dollar amount is not a $1,500 difference, I bet it will be at some point given enough time and related appreciation of value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother_Evil View Post
    The last I knew Sam could cut out the back plate, weld in a new one, and repark the receiver for $300 plus shipping. Can you back up your assertion that the market value of a M11/NINE would be diminished by $1,500 having a S.A.B.R.E. hole in the back plate? I think there is well over $15,000 difference in the market value between a Colt M16A1 and a M11/NINE. There is also the finishing processes. The aluminum M16 is gray anodized. The M11/NINE is parkerized gray steel. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is a $1,500 market value difference between a M11/NINE with a hole drilled in the back of the reciever because of the repair cost. I bought my M11/NINE in 2015. I think I bought it $300 to $400 less than market value at the time of sale. It was a local deal so there was only one stamp. YMMV.

    Scott
    See above.

  8. #28
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    Big difference between a hole in the back plate and having a Sten magwell . Personally , I'd buy anything price right that runs good . No NIB safe queens here although I have bought 3 Macs that were NIB . LOL !!

  9. #29
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    WTB all "devalued" lowers for $1,500 under market.

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    Something else to consider....how many would sell their M11 and not sell their accessories? I.E. what good would the Max11/15 upper be without the lower? Usually most folks sell as a package if possible, since it's added value. Who would not want a subgun that could also double as a FA rifle?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    WTB all "devalued" lowers for $1,500 under market.

    Now there^^ is a "ME TOO" movement I'd join right there!

    Rich

  12. #32
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    Me 2 ^

  13. #33
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    I bought a Sten converted m11/9 a while back. I believe my cost to convert it back to the OE gripwell was around $300. It definitely was under $500. That included parkerizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BMad View Post
    Perhaps iím a little ďmisinformedĒ about the actual dollar amount, how many of these macs with holes have actually sold? As brother evil wrote, as of now they could be welded & reparkerized for $300, plus shipping/insurance, plus hassle (which has a price tag on it). I know that I would not buy one, YMMV. Then again, I only have interest in M-11/9s and Iím far from a Mac expert. I do know I wouldnít buy a Sten converted M-11/9 either, because of cost of converting back, shipping/handling & hassle... speaking of, the only M-11/9s Iíve noticed sit without selling quickly (that weíre not grossly overpriced) are the Sten converted guns, Iíd put them in the same category... Even if that dollar amount is not a $1,500 difference, I bet it will be at some point given enough time and related appreciation of value.

    See above.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotgraham View Post
    I bought a Sten converted m11/9 a while back. I believe my cost to convert it back to the OE gripwell was around $300. It definitely was under $500. That included parkerizing.
    That’s a good price. I only purchased my M-11/9 recently, form 4 pending. Quick search on the topic yielded a $429.99 price tag at practical solutions, plus shipping & insurance and of course the hassle of dealing with it.

    I digress, I guess many people do not care about the hole, I guess not too many people care. I do, but I guess that’s just me.

  15. #35
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    The only reason Iím going with the IRM is it allows me to keep the stock set up that I use for my Max-31. Thatís the way itís mostly going to be used. It will be sweet to pop a pin out and now I can shoot rifle caliber. If Lage hadnít came up with it, Iíd drill the hole in a heartbeat.
    Mine wonít be sold till at least the kids get it, so Iím not worried about the <$500 hit it might take.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMad View Post
    But drilling the hole means if you ever wish to sell, market value will take a pretty good hit. Cost to weld the hole & reparkize should be factored in and let’s be honest, potential buyers would rather have a non-drilled pristine transferable (even a Mac) rather than one that has been hacked up and Jerry rigged. It easily knocks $1,500 off the value of the Mac. It’s akin to refinishing a Colt M-16. IMO it’s best to treat every transferable MG as an investment, YMMV.
    I have no plan to sell, ever.
    I wait a year, hole or no hole, it will have gained value.
    TASK, anyone?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sten View Post
    Something else to consider....how many would sell their M11 and not sell their accessories? I.E. what good would the Max11/15 upper be without the lower? Usually most folks sell as a package if possible, since it's added value. Who would not want a subgun that could also double as a FA rifle?
    When I bought my M11/NINE, it already had the hole for the S.A.B.R.E. But the owner had already sold the S.A.B.R.E. Why, my guess would be that he got more selling them individually than selling both the S.A.B.R.E. and the RR together as a "package". Last year I bought two M10s. One had a side cocking upper with HK sights, a Gemtech 3-lug barrel, one of Sam's Uzi side folder stocks and ten mags. The other had a low miles Lage mark II upper in .45, an ACE stock and 6 GI Grease Gun mags. Both also came with the original upper and stock. The Uzi converted gun with the side cocker was $6,000 and the .45 with the Lage upper was $6,500. As far as I am concerned the seller of the Uzi converted gun got $5,500 for the basic gun because I think the upper and mags are at least worth $500. And the Lage upper, stock and mags for the .45 should be worth $1,000. So the .45 basic gun I paid $5,500.

    Most buyers, I would think, want a deal if they are buying a package. I don't want to pay more than each item in the package if I am buying them all. I want to pay less. Obviously, if I don't have the gun, I don't need the accessories. But I have found selling the accessories individually nets me more money in total. And selling as a package nets me less. Every collector looking to buy a RR doesn't necessarily want the same accessories I have collected. There have been several times I have bought a package deal because I wanted some of the items. I sold off the things I didn't want so the price I paid for the things I kept was a very good price. YMMV.

    Scott

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer535 View Post
    I would like to go from MAX11/15 to my regular upper with the CF-W bolt without having to take apart the AR Stock and install my favorite stock. Just more options. If you want to just use the AR Stock then go with the AR recoil system.
    I keep seeing people make similar comments. What kind of adapters are you using?

    I just keep the OEM stock latch and change stocks as needed. Am I missing something here?


  19. #39
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    Mine already has a hole for the SABRE SAW setup

  20. #40
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    I've run a SABRE and a TASK so there is already a hole (which I drilled myself, easy, peasy)... But that being said I would still go with the buffer tube asm for the stated reasons and drill the hole again. I run my hook-up exactly like Garrett. I'm not going to "weld" it back up and should I decide in the future to sell I'm pretty sure I will get what I ask for it. Had Gordon known, thought of, invented etc... of all this back in the day he'd be the first on the band wagon.... IMHO....

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