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Thread: A Sad Update For The Tenko 10-16

  1. #41
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    No I don’t. A gapping hole in the end of a package with a note stamped on the package. Damaged please accept our apologies doesn’t cut it for me. 3 of the last 4 packages damaged, I’ll do something different. Never had to TRY and file a claim with other shippers. USPS claims is a joke. Almost like trying to work with the govt. Glad to see you have better luck.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    I am guessing a 16"x6"x12" box with a return shipment box on the inside, weighing 14lbs with the M10, Tenko adapter, stock, and 10.5" upper with 10,000.00 insurance.
    $56.85

    https://postcalc.usps.com/

    Mit Matelske
    Rugu LLC

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walksalone View Post
    No I don’t. A gapping hole in the end of a package with a note stamped on the package. Damaged please accept our apologies doesn’t cut it for me. 3 of the last 4 packages damaged, I’ll do something different. Never had to TRY and file a claim with other shippers. USPS claims is a joke. Almost like trying to work with the govt. Glad to see you have better luck.
    That sucks. We have about 50+ priority mail packages that go out daily with almost no issues from our customers. Everything dropped off daily at the PO.

    Now, my mailman, that's another story... I blame people who mail stuff not requiring signatures. Never do that. With any of them (USPS, UPS, Fedex).

    Mit Matelske
    Rugu LLC

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mit View Post
    $56.85

    https://postcalc.usps.com/

    Mit Matelske
    Rugu LLC
    Great, thank you for the information.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    Like Bump Stocks, Open Bolt Semis, and the Atkins Accelerator, to name 3.
    Akins Accelerator was never approved. The guy submitted a stock for an SKS, and then made a 10/22 stock with a spring in it. But pointing that out doesn't sound as good as the ATF is the devil.

    As for the rule change requiring the MG, it's been posted all over the place for a few months now. FB, Arfcom, think I saw it on here, state gun forums...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndustrialRescue View Post
    As for the rule change requiring the MG, it's been posted all over the place for a few months now. FB, Arfcom, think I saw it on here, state gun forums...
    To be clear, the FATD sent an email to the SOT community on December 10, 2018 that they would no longer do determinations of accessories without the accessory installed on a complete firearm. If you look on the FATD submission page https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...-division-fatd there's no reference to that. So did the email mean that only the SOT community had to send a complete firearm? Or was the complete firearm determination requirement for everyone? I had not seen anyone post one way. I now have a letter telling me that this is for everyone. Of course they still haven't updated the FATD submission page.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  7. #47
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    When the ATF changes the rules, it's safe to assume it applies to everyone.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndustrialRescue View Post
    When the ATF changes the rules, it's safe to assume it applies to everyone.
    If I "assumed" that, I never would have made the adapter. I am glad I didn't "assume" anything and am bringing the Tenko to market.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  9. #49
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    Scott, any update on the shipping of the registered mac and adaptor, I saw the thread on subguns, in my limited experience I always ship Fed Ex overnight, they have good tracking and someone has to sign for it upon receipt, I know about the insurance limit but have just bit the bullet and used it several times, never any trouble, have shipped to Sam couple times that way and he always sends the mac back usps but I guess he is a SOT and can do it. My local NFA dealer also always ships FedEx overnight, he is who got me stated, it is fairly expensive but we think is the best option.

  10. #50
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    I extended my home owners insurance and created a policy just for my gun. Its covered under home owners insurance but they said if its damaged or lost anywhere in the united states im golden minus the deductible. When Im finally ready to ship my lower off to have the mag well expanded I can use fedex with peace of mind.

  11. #51
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    I have also had the monkey wrench of the FATD change in policy as to determination. The letter stating that they were returning the Tenko adapter without a determination was dated the February 1, 2019. I have still not received that Tenko adapter back yet. I had hoped to install the one I had shipped to the FATD on a M10 lower and send it back. Since I have not received that one back yet, I pulled one of the Beta units that has had 10,000 rounds through it and installed that one on a M10 lower.


    That has brought up shipping. It is my understanding that registered mail is the way to ship machineguns. The postal regulations do not say anything about machineguns specifically that I could find, just long guns and firearms that are "concealable" i.e. handguns. It does state that a SBS or SBR are concealable.*


    So I installed a 16" upper on the Tenko adapter. On Friday, I took it to my local Post Office. I did say that I was shipping a machinegun as I wanted to be sure it would be insured. I was shipping it in a box from PSA. With the stock collapsed it just fit in the 39" box. The counter person sold me the return shipping postage and gave me labels and insurance/registered mail to put inside the box for return shipping. While I was filling out that stuff, the Postmaster came up to me. He said that he checked with the Postmaster General's office. He said that they told him that machineguns were not allowed to be shipped via the U.S. Mail. They returned my money for the postage and I left. I had not prepared for that. I didn't just want to argue, I wanted to have facts.


    So I went to FedEx. After a bunch of round and round, I could ship to the FATD and back but the maximum return insurance was for only $1,000. That did work for me. So I went home. I posted about this on subguns NFA Board as it seems there are some industry guys there. I didn't get much help there. I started going through the Postal regulations. There is an exception for "concealable" if you are mailing to an Agency. "12.1.7 Addressed to a scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any federal, state, or local law enforcement agency whose members are authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment."


    This was after my local Post Office was closed. There was another Post Office near me that was open until 2:00P.M. I was able to ship using this statue. I find this whole shipping situation ridiculous. If something where to happen I would not want my claim disallowed because I didn't describe what they were insuring. As with a problem with the Forms, I am hoping that once they receive the complete firearm, the FATD will do the determination right away. Time will tell.

    We are still moving forward with production of the first run of Tenko adapters. I am in hopes that we will have the first run finished by the time we get the determination. We are moving forward. Thank you all for your patience.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.
    Last edited by A&S Conversions; 02-25-2019 at 09:54 PM.

  12. #52
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    Thank you for the update, and yes it is past ridiculous to ship machineguns, as I said I prepackage mine, take it to my local dealer and he uses his FedEx account to make label and schedule it be picked up same day, his usual driver knows he ships machineguns and has never said a word, I of course pay the dealer for the trouble, but it works for me. Glad you are still moving ahead, my tax refund awaits.

  13. #53
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    A&S Conversions, Scott, you are doing everything right! Hat's off to you. I can read there are some Debbie downers here for sure. Just stay focused and you will reap the benefits!!!

  14. #54
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    if you have firearms insurance then you do not need to be concerned about that part..just ship it...ive paid $125 just for insurance each way...if you ship a few guns you have basically paid for your year of insurance.

    i will admit to having shipped USPS and had no issues...ive received a number of guns USPS and had no problems. ive never had 1 lost package. Its not against Federal law, its just USPS rules. Do you ever speed? your already a law breaker. Breaking a USPS rule isnt so bad. Since ive received 5-7 pistols through them it appears many people break their rule.

    Fed Ex will take whatever you have without question. Its who i use now. Costs me $50 to ship a subgun w/o insurance

  15. #55
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    I think ya need to change the name of this thread.. it’s too sad! How about a new thread for happy news? Seriously though good to see progress being made.
    Live BRAVE, Live FREE!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    if you have firearms insurance then you do not need to be concerned about that part..just ship it...ive paid $125 just for insurance each way...if you ship a few guns you have basically paid for your year of insurance.
    We're looking into insurance right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    i will admit to having shipped USPS and had no issues...ive received a number of guns USPS and had no problems. ive never had 1 lost package. Its not against Federal law, its just USPS rules.
    I have found nothing in the Postal regulations about shipping a machinegun at all. But since I was using their insurance, I didn't want them to say that I broke their rules and they wouldn't cover it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Battering ram NIB View Post
    Since ive received 5-7 pistols through them it appears many people break their rule.
    To be clear, it is okay for a FFL holder to ship a concealable firearm. It is not okay for a non FFL holder to ship via USPS a concealable firearm even if shipping to a FFL holder.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  17. #57
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    I check UT daily, ever hopeful: “today’s the day he heard from FATD.”

    I realize I’m subjecting others to the same agony by bumping this thread, but I can live with that.

  18. #58
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    We waited three weeks for the original Tenko adapter to come back, so we shipped one of the Beta test units with a 16" upper and a transferable M10, so it was a complete firearm. We received an email from the FATD on March 6th stating they had received our submission and what the reference number for that submission was. The email also said that after 150 days I could ask as to the status of the submission.

    I asked if the new submission would take the place of the previous submission. Also if they still had the original submission. If so, there was one feature that differs from the second submission, and would that feature also be evaluated, or did I need to spend another $120 to resubmit the original submission with a RR? On March 8th I received an email back from the FATD that the second submission evaluation was completed and waiting for the Chief of the FATD to review and sign. Once that was completed, a copy of the determination would be emailed to me and my submission will be mailed back with the postage I shipped with it.

    They never said anything about the original submission, so I asked. They wrote me back that the original submission was mailed back on Monday the 11th. Of course I didn't get that until Thursday the 14th, which was the day it arrived back. Since then nothing. Like you, I've been hoping any day now to post the approval. Of course I have no idea what the process is. Does the Chief forward the evaluation to the legal dept. for review? Or does he skim over it and sign it, or something in between? I have no idea, which I find the worst. I did write and ask what the process would be on the 18th. I have not gotten a response. This has been harder than my first transfer.

    Certainly I will post once I get the determination. I know that most of the guys following this thread want to know. I have not posted as what I have written above is a long winded, I don't really know anything. But for those that want the details, I thought I would post them. I'm hoping it will be any day now as at least the evaluation has been done.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  19. #59
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    as for someone who is waiting, any info regarding updates is good info.

    Thanks

  20. #60
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    The Chief of the FATD is a bureaucrat so it may take a while. He does not want anyone to think that they don't need 150 days so it sits on his desk for 120 before he looks at it. If it only took a week someone might decide they could cut his budget. I hope he proves this cynic wrong and you receive the determination tomorrow.

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