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Thread: A Sad Update For The Tenko 10-16

  1. #81
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    It is designed and ready to be made. But with no cash flow and no idea when we will have cash flow. So we feel spending thousands on a prototype right now would not be the best use of our limited resources. We are currently bleeding $1,800 per month with no end in sight. We wish we had more that we could do. I miss the development process. If we had gotten approval as quick as the plastic version we would be selling the AK version now. Thank you for asking. I am sorry it is not better news.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  2. #82
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    Thanks for the update

  3. #83
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    Thanks for the update. If you wish to consider, any worth in dropping an email address here of the honcho at the ATF that we could all email and perpetually bother?

    It seems a little bizarre how long this determination is taking them to do.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsoccer3 View Post
    Thanks for the update. If you wish to consider, any worth in dropping an email address here of the honcho at the ATF that we could all email and perpetually bother?

    It seems a little bizarre how long this determination is taking them to do.
    You wouldn’t want BATFE to decide they like him as much as Len Savage. Then he’d never get a determination.

  5. #85
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    True DAT! ^^^

  6. #86
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    Yes, I don't know as an email campaign would help. Probably hurt. I wish I knew what more we could do. Thank you for hanging in there guys. This can't go on forever (I hope).

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

    ETA, they are getting to know me there enough, as it is. I am trying not to be a pest, but someone that isn't going away anytime soon.
    Last edited by A&S Conversions; 02-22-2020 at 11:03 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    Yes, I don't know as an email campaign would help. Probably hurt. I wish I knew what more we could do. Thank you for hanging in there guys. This can't go on forever (I hope).

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

    ETA, they are getting to know me there enough, as it is. I am trying not to be a pest, but someone that isn't going away anytime soon.
    Is it possible for you to get an in person appointment with someone who could possibly explain the status of your determination? It's much more difficult to ignore someone who is sitting in front of you politely and compellingly pleading their case. If nothing else you might be able to build a contact or get some sort of answer about what is really going on for your time.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlk View Post
    Is it possible for you to get an in person appointment with someone who could possibly explain the status of your determination? It's much more difficult to ignore someone who is sitting in front of you politely and compellingly pleading their case. If nothing else you might be able to build a contact or get some sort of answer about what is really going on for your time.
    Yes, I certainly have thought of that. My problem is that the Tech Branch is a little over 500 miles away. I am currently working 6 to 7 days a week at my real job. There aren't a lot of people who do what I do. If I did get someone to cover for me, I would need to take an entire week off. That would be very expensive.

    Next would be who I would ask to see? How many days might I have to sit in the lobby? I would think that it would also make people nervous. None of the emails I have received were signed, even with a first name. The only name I have is that of the Chief of the FATD. What would he tell me? If I was laid off, I might go down and knock on the door. It doesn't seem like loosing thousands of dollars in income plus fuel and travel expenses with no specific plan of who to see, when seems like a great way to loose thousands of dollars with nothing to show for it. I don't know what else to do without spending thousands of dollars with no guarentee of success.

    We really appreciate the support we have received from this community. Thank you. It means a lot that you guys are pulling for us. I never imagined it would be this hard to bring our product to market. In two weeks will be the one year anniversary of the FATD writing us to say that they received the Tenko on our RPB M10. Two days later will be the one year anniversary of the FATD writing back to say our evaluation was done. Thank you again for the kind words. We will get our determination, someday.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

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    I assume no updates or you would have told us by now. Hoping the country shutdown might reduce work allow ATF to clear some backlog.

  10. #90
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    This is rough. Is anyone aware of any determination letters coming out in the last year or so? It seems we haven't seen one in Mac world, but what about the pistol braces? They make new ones all the time, are they getting letters?

    Please don't drive down there. Hopefully they are working from home, but if they have to go into the office, they are not going to want random people showing up :0)

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    Yeah fostech got a change in "correct me if I'm wrong" a gun they already had approval on? Basically said surprise this is actually an sbs, aow or DD depending on how you wanna go about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    This is rough. Is anyone aware of any determination letters coming out in the last year or so? It seems we haven't seen one in Mac world, but what about the pistol braces? They make new ones all the time, are they getting letters?

    Please don't drive down there. Hopefully they are working from home, but if they have to go into the office, they are not going to want random people showing up :0)
    Being in the federal burbs. I can assure you that working often means 8 hours worked per 40 in a pay period. I did one summer internship in it years ago. The guilt of being paid to not work and being apart of that was enough to change my political views 180 degrees and never look back.

    They are probably approving none. I am ready to harass them with emails myself.

    They often have rules like “no paperwork / documents outside the office” for security issues (e.g. a not decent IT division). Long and short, they might be clocking 40 hour weeks right now merely refreshing their emails over when they are going back to working again.
    Last edited by cjsoccer3; 04-15-2020 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #93
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    I am sorry, I don't know what to say. Luckily, I have been working six and seven days a week for the last three months at my real job. That's been handy as we are still spending $1,800 per month on overhead for A&S Conversions with no end in sight.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    I am sorry, I don't know what to say. Luckily, I have been working six and seven days a week for the last three months at my real job. That's been handy as we are still spending $1,800 per month on overhead for A&S Conversions with no end in sight.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.
    Thank you! Hopefully you get return on your investment soon!! And your gun back...

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    I am sorry, I don't know what to say. Luckily, I have been working six and seven days a week for the last three months at my real job. That's been handy as we are still spending $1,800 per month on overhead for A&S Conversions with no end in sight.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.
    Do you own your manufacturing facility? Why is your overhead so high?

  16. #96
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    So when are we going to start signing risk waivers? Or is the plan to continue sitting here until we’re a bunch of desiccated bodies holding smart phones/ sitting at PCs? Just asking for a friend.
    Live BRAVE, Live FREE!

  17. #97
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    [QUOTE Just asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]

    You have friends? I don’t envy you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    So when are we going to start signing risk waivers? Or is the plan to continue sitting here until we’re a bunch of desiccated bodies holding smart phones/ sitting at PCs? Just asking for a friend.
    +1
    I’ll be his friend...

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman View Post
    Do you own your manufacturing facility? Why is your overhead so high?
    We fronted the $70,000 for R&D to develop the finalized version of the Tenko 10-16. Since I received an email over 13 months ago that the evaluation of the finalized version had been completed and submitted to the Chief of the FATD for "review and approval" (why wouldn't it be approved when we had already submitted the design in 3D printed version that was determined to not be a firearm or a machinegun) so we borrowed the money to go into production from my annuity fund. After basically no response from the FATD for months, several RKIs had suggested that we become a FFL Manufacturer. The FATD was supposed to have better communication with FFL holders. Becoming a FFL Manufacturer has always been part of our plan from the beginning. We didn't want to invest in becoming a FFL holder right now. We also did not want such a business run out of our home. I didn't want to have my personal firearm collection at risk by having our home address on the FFL. So we rented a business location away from our home. Between the two payments we are spending $1,800 per month.

    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    So when are we going to start signing risk waivers? Or is the plan to continue sitting here until we’re a bunch of desiccated bodies holding smart phones/ sitting at PCs? Just asking for a friend.
    Upon further reflection the "waiver" idea, is not the direction we will do. That was a very bad idea and I am sorry I ever mentioned it. I have a lot invested in our product, but even though the plastic version was approved, what if the FATD decided that the aluminum version was a machinegun? If I had sold a bunch of them, what happens then? It would seem to me transferring Post Sample machineguns to private individuals would be a felony per each unit. What would a lawyer to defend you in Federal court cost? The "waiver" would cover civil suits but what about the BATF&E? What if all the units are not recovered? I get that there is no law stating that there must be a determination before selling a firearm related product. The FATD has made bizarre determinations. I don't want to be "staring out the barrel" of multiple felonies because I sold units before having received a determination. But that is just how I wish to bring our product to market. YMMV.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  20. #100
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    We are all rooting for your success Scott

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