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Thread: A Sad Update For The Tenko 10-16

  1. #101
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    Scott, stay safe and healthy and take care of the family. If there is anything we can do to help, there are several of us in the Mac community who would be willing to step up. It sucks the way BATFE is stringing you along. Once you get the determination letter the market will be here waiting with open check books.

  2. #102
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    Tenko 10-16

    Somehow I think there is some bubble butted bureaucrat drooling into his Cracker Jacks and snickering over how he is sticking it to the deplorables.

  3. #103
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    Thank you so very much for the kind words guys. I so very much appreciate the support. It is my decisions that caused us to be where we are. Of course hindsight is 20/20. I should have waited until we received the determination before going into production. Becoming a FFL manufacturer has made no difference. I am still being ignored by the FATD. But we signed a lease. So we pay the bills and wait. Instruments Examiners can work from home. I don't know about technicians. Is the FATD open right now? I truly believe that some day some time, this situation will be resolved and we will be able to go to market with our products. Until then we wait. It certainly doesn't look like this will be resolved this week, or this month. What exactly is it going to take to get this resolved, who knows? We will just hang on as best we can. Again thank you for the kind words of support. It does mean a lot. Thank you.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  4. #104
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    Scott, hang in there! Sooner or later, you will receive an answer. Even if it's a strong "NO", don't give up. Often it is not the 1st, or even 100th, idea that gets you to where you want to be.
    My wife spent over 12 years painting, sketching, etc, before she sold her first piece (this year). She now has commissions from 3 countries!

  5. #105
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    If other members would take up a fund, I'd be happy to send you $300.00 so you can take a week off of work and drive to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Branch and sit in the office and get that answer.

    Who's in to help?

  6. #106
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    He will get there and they'll say no one's here especially anyone who makes any real decisions. Anyone who has any power is sitting at home. Also no chance you can just walk in there and ask for an answer, they'd say well do you have an appointment?

  7. #107
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    I wish your Congresswoman and Senators were 2A friendly, never mind local business friendly, then you might have a chance at getting them to inquire at ATF and help motivate the process.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by har1340 View Post
    If other members would take up a fund, I'd be happy to send you $300.00 so you can take a week off of work and drive to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Branch and sit in the office and get that answer.

    Who's in to help?
    That is such a kind offer. Thank you for very much. It means a lot. This is all self funded. Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't want to take anyone's money. Especially right now, to show up without an appointment, just seems like a waste of resources. The job that I am on should be over in about a month. I will make an evaluation of the situation then. Certainly traveling when most of the country is shut down just doesn't seem like the right thing to do. I have several risk factors so traveling right now would be very scary for me.

    Again, the words of support means so much to me. Thank you all so very much. Like my first machinegun transfer, I just need to wait and try not to dwell on "When will I get the paperwork? ". Thank you so very much for your kind words. I know that I will get to market, just not right now.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  9. #109
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    Scott, If the next month goes by and the job comes to pass, make an appt. and I'll even send a pint of sanitizer over to get the long ride underway. And maybe will get a go fund Scott drive and get you over there and get this great product up and running.

  10. #110
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    Iíll donate an N95 mask and thatís coming from someone who was going to buy a Tenko adapter but will not be buying one now. The ATF is shafting you in more ways than one and itís disgusting. I believe Lage also stated they will not sell their M11 556 and M10 556 without a determination letter.

  11. #111
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    and I'll even send a pint of sanitizer over
    Thats brings a new meaning to "have a pint, on me"

  12. #112
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    I think there is a bunch of legal bullshit going on kinda behind the scenes on what the legal definition of a gun is and it has them (ATF) probably scared or whatever cause this has gone on to long and it is total BULLSHIT, as we all know.........good luck Scott .

  13. #113
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    M10/15 and m11a/15 are waiting approval. They are a variation of a product already on the market. I wouldn’t take the delay too personal. Me thinks the bump stock reversal has them thinking as long as we don’t do anything we won’t have to defend it or undo it.

    Sorry kickstand already addressed this.
    Last edited by Walksalone; 04-17-2020 at 07:52 PM.

  14. #114
    Mr. Miata
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    This sucks. Sorry. Hang in there Scott!

    I'll refrain from criticizing this administration's gun policies.
    AWWWW NUTS!

    REAL MEN DRIVE MIATAS

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    We fronted the $70,000 for R&D to develop the finalized version of the Tenko 10-16. Since I received an email over 13 months ago that the evaluation of the finalized version had been completed and submitted to the Chief of the FATD for "review and approval" (why wouldn't it be approved when we had already submitted the design in 3D printed version that was determined to not be a firearm or a machinegun) so we borrowed the money to go into production from my annuity fund. After basically no response from the FATD for months, several RKIs had suggested that we become a FFL Manufacturer. The FATD was supposed to have better communication with FFL holders. Becoming a FFL Manufacturer has always been part of our plan from the beginning. We didn't want to invest in becoming a FFL holder right now. We also did not want such a business run out of our home. I didn't want to have my personal firearm collection at risk by having our home address on the FFL. So we rented a business location away from our home. Between the two payments we are spending $1,800 per month.
    .
    So why not utilize, build firearms and sell firearms, or am I misunderstanding?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    We didn't want to invest in becoming a FFL holder right now. We also did not want such a business run out of our home. I didn't want to have my personal firearm collection at risk by having our home address on the FFL. So we rented a business location away from our home. Between the two payments we are spending $1,800 per month.
    The costs of becoming an FFL 07 for 3 years of license is way less than your single month payment expense. And the concept of “risking your personal firearm collection” if your FFL is home-based is based on what?... you just have to store your personal firearms separately from FFL inventory, or at least label/tag them as personal if stored together... the ATF makes that part easy.
    Now hosting: www.MAC-11.info

  17. #117
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    Lots of products from various vendors in the pipeline stillborn due to systemic bureaucratic beadledom traced to the bumpstock question still not resolved.

    Add the virus slowdown, then afterwards the slag time moving again if anything.

    Unfortunately youíre one of the few at the forefront of the zero movement era.

    Lage got his 11/15 approved just in time, but not the 11a/15 or 10/15 - being functionally identical to an approved upper, versions long in the pipeline and mainstream as you get for this type of animal.

    Those paid by the .gov with a promised pension on the end donít hurry due to raw capitalism and itís concerns. They have a different ďcorporateĒ culture to conform to.

    Plan accordingly.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
    So why not utilize, build firearms and sell firearms, or am I misunderstanding?
    We have sunk most all of our working capital plus borrowed another tens of thousands of dollars to go into Tenko production. The units are built. But we are not going to sell until we have a determination to sell. We have no actual manufacturing capacity. We pay others for their services. We don't have the resources to attemp manufacturing anything else right now.

    We are in the situation we, are because of my decisions. I got an email over a year ago stating that the evaluation of the Tenko adapter was complete and had been submitted to the Chief of the FATD for "review and approval ". Since we had already had a determination of the same mechanism built with another material, I thought it was just that, the determination was the same and the Chief would sign it and send it to us. So I chose to build more units. Well we didn't get the determination then. So when those units were built I borrowed the money from my retirement fund to pay for them.

    So what if, as part of this Slidefire debacle, we get a determination that says the Tenko adapter is a machinegun? Transferring Post Sample machineguns to private individuals is a felony. I would be in a much worse position facing multiple felonies than I would be where I am now.

    It is not about worrying about keeping my personal collection separate from the business inventory. The physical location of the FFL is public knowledge. I don't want the address of my personal collection public knowledge. We signed a lease for the business location. There are legal entanglements in breaking the lease. We have the resources to continue as we are for now. If we received a determination so we could sell the units already built, the problem would be gone. With the pandemic, I am not expected such a determination next week or even next month. I would like to think by next year this will be resolved.

    If I had waited until I actually had the determination to sell in my hands before going into full production, we would not be in the position we are today. A fact that still pisses off my wife whenever the subject comes up. We will make it through. When that will be, I don't know.

    Scott
    Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

  19. #119
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    Don't worry Scott. Things will work out. Can't beat yourself up with 20/20 heindseight vision too much. What you did made sense based on all previous history up until that very point in time when you sent in your submission.

  20. #120
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    Are we STILL beating this to death?

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