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Thread: new owner, range report

  1. #1
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    new owner, range report

    Finally got my m11/9
    593 days ( form 4 out of state to in-state plus in-state transfer)
    previous owner updated lower with everything that sold on Lage website, trigger/stock/safety/etc, reinforced receiver

    during waiting , I got:
    max-11 mk2 (around 10 metal mags 30/50 and couple plastic mags)
    max-31 mk2 (2 drums and bunch of stick mags)
    CFW bolt for oem upper
    22lr kit for max-11mk2
    22lr kit for oem upper

    took to range today
    zero problem shooting 9mm with drums / metal mags

    problems:
    2 plastic mags in oem upper/max-11 mk2 jams ( I guess need to sell those(no brand name printed on mags) and buy steel ones)

    max-31 mk2 stick mags wobling, must push bottom of the mag forward to be able to shoot, otherwise jam. Is it good idea to sell those stick mags and buy more drums?

    22lr using this ammo
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/fede...ack-788bf.html
    in both kits , could not finish even 1 full plastic mag ( is there a steel mags for 22lr?)
    for example:
    last round look like that:

    jam every few rounds, mags sits very tight, no wobbling
    any idea? should I get different ammo? looking into 22lr manual , look like my ammo is not recommended

    as a new owner, what else I should get to have more fun?( i am already on a waiting list for tenko, grey ghost and ultimac)
    thanks

  2. #2
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    M11/15 has already been approved. A flash enhancer and I like to break out the speed cube.

  3. #3
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    thanks for recommending m11/15, but I also have m16 incoming ( still in jail)

  4. #4
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    A pic or two of your .22 kits and mags would be helpful.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  5. #5
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    My M11-22 kit does not eat the Federal Black Pack .22s very well. Lage recommends Remington Goldens and they do work pretty well in my kit, but I have the best consistent results with Remington Thunderbolts. You will just have to experiment with a few different varieties and see what works best in your kit. Rim lock is a primary cause of jamming and feeding issues and utilizing a Lightnin Grip loader or the Lage "poke & drop" loading tool will help alleviate those problems. Although, from the photo it appears that your jam resulted in the firing pin contacting the shell case somehow.

    Disassembling and thoroughly cleaning the magazines is a good idea.

    With the .22 kit you will have to learn that there will be a few 'sacrificial" rounds per hundred due to the finicky nature of the kit and inconsistent ammo specifications.

  6. #6
    Mr. Miata
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    I don't mean to be snarky, but if shooting a Lage .22 kit, it is VERY IMPORTANT to read the owners manual and follow the detailed instructions (e.g., ammunition recommendations, loading instructions, etc).

    Congrats on the 9mm stuff working well.
    AWWWW NUTS!

    REAL MEN DRIVE MIATAS

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottinTexas View Post
    A pic or two of your .22 kits and mags would be helpful.
    here is photos:
    https://ibb.co/album/PF0cxv

    mags are regular plastic 22lr mags

  8. #8
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    What metal mags are you using with Max31? The Z-Mag S work I my upper but surplus mags will not. I can’t help with Lage /2 issues.

  9. #9
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    Just wanted to be 100% sure you didn't have a Fleming kit or something else.

    Those mags are all that are available. Made by Black Dog Machine for Lage.

    There many threads here about the M11/22 kit and what works for some and doesn't for others. For some they are just hopelessly unreliable. Others they run 99%+.

    I suggest this:

    1. Clean your mags thoroughly and perhaps spray the insides and followers with silicone spray.

    2. You've read Lage's website and know what ammo is recommended. I'll suggest that CCI 36 and 40 gr minimags should be among the the ammo you test. In my opinion and experience, CCI ammo is the most reliable and consistent on the market. Federal bulk may also be good, recent experience and observations suggest it may be identical to CCI 36gr. Personally I think RGB and most Winchester is crap and usually won't run in any of my guns.

    In any case, ammo power, projectile profile, overall length and rim dimensions are likely going to impact reliability / what runs for you. Methodically test 6-8 ammo types and make note of which mag you used and results.

    3. Consider buying enough mags to be able to take 10 fully loaded and labeled each range trip. You'll thank me at some point.

    4. Contrary to common sense, you need to pull the trigger firmly, with a sharp yank...and release it the same way. I've noticed with mine that if the trigger is NOT fully pulled back the bolt will drag ever so slightly....but that may be enough to slow it down and stop the fun. You can check this without a mag, all unloaded. Cock it, hold the cocking knob, pull the trigger but control the knob as the bolt moves. I notice drag when the trigger is NOT fully pulled - and no drag when fully pulled.

    5. Determine what exactly the malfunction is: Fail to feed, fail to eject, fail to fire, failure of the spent case to exit the gun. You may have multiples but it help determine corrections.

    6. Extractors(?) are from the Ruger 10/22. If worn and F T Extract, replace. Cheap.

    7. The recoil spring has a finite life. Maybe your needs replacing.

    8. Richard Lage has in the past generously offered to align his 22 kit's barrels / assemblies with you upper. At some point you may want to contact them. There has been no charge and turnaround is quick. Great service, great people.

    9. Rim lock. Easy to occur in these magazines. I wish they were available in clear polymer still. Anyway, extreme difficulty in loading and flat bullet angle are indicators of rim lock. I tend to load mine by hand so I know if there is an issue.

    10. The upper should be clean of brass bits and debris. Light oil; don't overdo it.

    11. Some magazines do not lock up well while others do. I suspect there have been subtle changes to the mag molds over the years. Check every mag to ensure it is truly locking into place without undue force required. If they don't lock in - or you can pull them back out without touching the mag release - you probably have a later mag release and ought to replace it. Or you may need to remove some of the polymer from the mag with the edge of a flat file. Deepen the catch slot on the mag and remove some from the upper edge. Test, file, test.

    Good luck finding your way out of the briar patch.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  10. #10
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    Thanks everyone for suggestions.

  11. #11
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    12. Make sure the chamber and area around the extractor has not been peened or damaged. There's a notch for the extractor to slip in. Check the bottom of the chamber for any burrs.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  12. #12
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    RPM: took video of full drum(71) dump (config: max-31/cosmic can):
    extracted audio, wrote python script to count peaks, got 634 rpm , is this a good number?
    here is buffer from max-31
    Name:  max31buffer.jpg
Views: 184
Size:  79.6 KB

    thanks

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gomelkiev View Post
    RPM: took video of full drum(71) dump (config: max-31/cosmic can):
    extracted audio, wrote python script to count peaks, got 634 rpm , is this a good number?
    here is buffer from max-31
    Attachment 35898

    thanks
    Um. Nice. Can you share that script? Been trying to figure out a good way to do that but never learned how to intercept audio in that fashion.

  14. #14
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    software needed:
    1. https://www.audacityteam.org/
    2. https://www.anaconda.com/products/individual ( get 3.7)
    3. script https://github.com/SKempin/audio-peak-detection

    install steps:
    1. install audacity
    2. install python
    3. install requirements for audio peak detection:
    pip install -r requirements.txt

    calculate RPM:
    1. get MOV file from iphone or MP4 from android phone
    2. load MOV/MP4 in audacity (audacity will extract audio)
    3. copy exact part where peaks are visible(shots)
    4. export as mp3 file
    5. modify peaks-detection.py with exported file name (create directory "output", or modify script)
    6. run: python peaks-detection.py
    7. if not all peaks found , play with those parameters:
    original:
    peaks = librosa.util.peak_pick(onset_env, 3, 3, 3, 5, 0.5, 10)
    mine:
    peaks = librosa.util.peak_pick(onset_env, 1, 1, 1, 3, 0.5, 1)

    python script will create CSV file , take first and last value and calculate RPM:

    rpm=60*number_of_shots/(last_value - first_value)

    or add those 2 lines to end of peaks-detection.py:
    n=len(peak_times)
    print ("RPM:",60*n/(peak_times[-1]-peak_times[0]))
    Last edited by gomelkiev; 07-22-2020 at 10:00 AM. Reason: formula

  15. #15
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    I have 22 kits for my uzi and M11/9. They're fun when they work, but as you're discovering, they don't work most of the time. Cleaning the mags after every use and hot ammo helps. Frankly, I've given up on them. A 22 kit will never work like 9mm will because the gun was not designed to shoot 22. Another point is -- 22 ammo isn't that cheap anymore. At least the hot ammo that works better in these conversion kits. 20 years ago, when I got the uzi kit it was way cheaper than 9mm and easy to find. Then the Obama fueled hoarding began with every nut job thinking he needed 5000 rounds of 22 ammo and it got impossible to find for a couple years and prices went way up. Lastly, Lage oughta be ashamed of those junk Black Dog magazines. The ones I got were crap. He was nice enough to 'fit' the kit to my gun for free, but it never worked before or after. I've been pleased with his stuff, except for the 22 conversion -- and I don't see that as his fault. These guns weren't meant to use 22 ammo.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I have 22 kits for my uzi and M11/9. They're fun when they work, but as you're discovering, they don't work most of the time. Cleaning the mags after every use and hot ammo helps. Frankly, I've given up on them. A 22 kit will never work like 9mm will because the gun was not designed to shoot 22. Another point is -- 22 ammo isn't that cheap anymore. At least the hot ammo that works better in these conversion kits. 20 years ago, when I got the uzi kit it was way cheaper than 9mm and easy to find. Then the Obama fueled hoarding began with every nut job thinking he needed 5000 rounds of 22 ammo and it got impossible to find for a couple years and prices went way up. Lastly, Lage oughta be ashamed of those junk Black Dog magazines. The ones I got were crap. He was nice enough to 'fit' the kit to my gun for free, but it never worked before or after. I've been pleased with his stuff, except for the 22 conversion -- and I don't see that as his fault. These guns weren't meant to use 22 ammo.
    I got couple thousands of recommended 22lr ammo , will try to go to range this weekend.

  17. #17
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    I'll second the suggestion for CCI MiniMags. Running a can helps too.

    I like the Black Dog mags.

    One thing to check , is the mag catch on your Mac. Mine had been filed on before I got it, which led to a lot of problems, particularly with the .22 kit.

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