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Thread: whats the point of poly coat on cast if it sloughs off when seating?

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    whats the point of poly coat on cast if it sloughs off when seating?

    As the title says.
    Bought a couple hundred 576gr poly cast bullets (acme) for my .458 SOCOM. I sized my brand new brass. When seating it shaved just a smidgle of lead off. With some poly. Seems pointless to poly coat if it comes off. Am i doing something wrong? Never done cast bullets before. My socom dies dont have a die to bell the case kneck any.

    I can fit 11 in a magazine. So i made 11 (+1 after the pictures were taken). So a full mag is 6,336 grains of lead... wish i could fit one more, then it would be just a couple grains shy of a pound.
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    If you think about it, the rifling will scrape off a lot more Poly than soft brass

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    Not a reloader, but seems likely you answered your own question.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
    When seating it shaved just a smidgle of lead off. With some poly.... My socom dies dont have a die to bell the case kneck any.

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    That was my first thought, did you bell the mouth of the neck? I'd check in some reloading forums to see how other folks are getting by.
    What velocity are able to push those slugs?
    Last edited by Fulliautomatix; 10-08-2020 at 09:34 AM.

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    Looking into it, appears it may be beneficial to use a expander die https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011184394?pid=140461
    Will pick one up and see how it works for me.
    Just chronied a couple rounds. I got 982 and 963 fps. Pushing them with 20 grains of accurate 1680. Im happy with the velocity. Not going to go any higher. According to accurate its near a 100% case fill. Which if you look, it seems weird to me that the projectile is seated far enough down where powder would be around the circumferance.
    Will get that die and post back when i use it.

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    Also chronied a 300 grain hornady hollow point. Was 1673 fps. Cant remember off top my head what the powder charge was on that.

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    I love to cast, powder coat and load my ammo. Powder coating or Hi Tek coating will not wear off under 1500 fps on most ammo. More care must be taken when loading powder coated bullet but it's not that hard. The expander die is a good choice.
    Last edited by strobro32; 09-20-2020 at 05:26 PM.

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    You NEED to bell the case mouth. Just a tiny amount, but you do need to have a "funnel" to keep from scraping the coating off. There is no way that you can get the bullet to go in perfectly concentric and perfectly parallel to avoid the coating scraping along the leading edge of the case. You also generally need it for plain lead because both are so soft relative to the brass case.

    Another thing is that you might need a larger neck sizer. Most lead bullets are a couple-few thousandth larger than comparable copper jacketed bullets. You should check and compare your cast and coated bullet ODs to jacketed. The box says 'sized to 0.459' and most jacketed bullets are 0.458. See what your die sizes the neck to, not the OD of the die at that point - brass is a bit springy. I'd check several bullets at several places to look for variation in bullet width around the OD. It's possible that they are over the 0.459 in a few places.

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    Going to town today, so will see if i can find one of those lee dies.
    Measured some bullets. All of the hornady 300 grain hollow points and the speer 400 grain soft points measured exactly .455". All of the cast (or swagged) bullets i measured were exactly .457"

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    Forgot to mention. Had a couple function issues when i ran that mag. Had 3 failure to feed and 1 failure to eject. Will retry with same powder weight when i get the bell die and see if that .002" or whatever that i shaved off leaked to much gas to cycle.

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    Update:

    Bought a lee 45/70 die set (dont have a 45/70... but i guess i need to buy one now!). I made a expander die extension so the plug drops down far enough to use on a bottle kneck cartridge. I used the dimensions of the lee plug for my plug. I accidentally miscalculated (i shouldnt be running a lathe at 1am) and chopped my plug short. So i drilled and tapped the back to screw onto the lee plug. I used a axle u bolt that i had from a job at work. Was a 9/16 bolt.
    Going to polish the plug. Smidge rough, not terrible just could be better.
    Loaded 10 shots with it. Cycled correctly in the firearm, didnt scrape any shavings off while seating. Did not shoot through a chrony, was borrowing my brothers and he wanted it back. People shouldnt be so possesive of their stuff! Sheesh!
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    Once you get a 45/70, it will become your favorite rifle

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    Seems everybody who has one really likes them! Kinda find it amusing that I am backing into it from the opposite direction many do. Getting a wildcat based on the projectile and moving to the original round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperdoc View Post
    Once you get a 45/70, it will become your favorite rifle
    Why?

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    I shot a friends and I have been wanting one for about 2 years. To me it's like shooting a whole mag of 9mm at once. I don't feel the need to plink with it but it's nice knowing that it will take down any animal on the content with 1 shot. Good ballistics at a 1000 yards, time tested, easy to cast and load, feels like a real gun. There's something nostalgic about a lever gun.

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    The most accurate .45-70 load in two separate 1895 Marlins was 45.0 of IMR 4198 with a 300gr. polycoated lead bullet. Way less abusive than 400 gr. bullets loaded to Marlin-safe pressure levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    Why?
    There's just something satisfying about it that makes it very fun to shoot. If you reload, you can make soft shooting plinker loads or hunting loads that get damn close to the 458 WinMag (DO NOT run the latter in an 1873 Springfield!!!)

  18. #18
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    Suppressed .45-70 lever gun shooting handloaded subsonics was tons of fun. Very impressive performance.

  19. #19
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    Doesn't your powder through die have a bevel for belling the case?
    The dillions do.

    You really don't want sheared lead/coating it affects weight and makes the bullet out of round.
    Both affect accuracy.

    Don't over bell or over crimp either, both will drastically reduce the life of your brass.
    Over crimp can and will cause shearing and leave that ring of lead in the chamber.
    This will cause either the round to not seat, lock up the bolt upon closing and not fire due to bolt setback,
    Worse of all it can cause a KB.
    It can also causes case separation if over crimped on the big heavy sub sonic loads.
    Due to the bullet being so long and set back so far.
    Over crimped bullets cast or jacketed are the main reason for KB's in the 300 blkout & larger sub sonic rounds in the ar guns.

    If you do get shearing while seating you can clean it off fast with a rag and a quick twist of the bullet head in the rag.
    But I'd not shoot them through a can and only use them to get cycling and BHO achived.

  20. #20
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    Hi ericthered,

    Some helpful hints loading non-jacketed bullets. Some has already been mentioned.

    1.) New brass may need a chamfer on the inside. Just enough to take the edge of the inside of the mouth of the case off
    2.) Gently flare the mouth of the case prior to attempting to seat the bullet.
    3.) Do not seat the bullet and crimp in the same operation. Crimp the bullet in a separate die/operation. This is especially important if there isn't a large crimping groove in the cast bullet. It is mandatory if using a taper crimp.

    Enjoy,

    K2

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