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Thread: New ar15 trigger slap inducing full auto simulator.

  1. #141
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    Been getting their emails twice daily. They vary from 150 in stock to just 50 left in stock.

    In the past it was 2 months between emails. Bought/sold but now it would be only for myself. Meh, if it had a semi position it would be perfect. To dedicate an entire rifle to a bullet hose-only isnít what I want.

  2. #142
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    Posted without comment

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  3. #143
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    Not terribly surprising.

    I wonder what will happen to the thousands of these sold. We'll be hearing about this for years.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  4. #144
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    It seems pretty odd that they filed that August 2nd and they're still selling them.
    Last edited by Gaujo; 08-13-2021 at 07:07 AM.

  5. #145
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    Funny how quickly unrequested determinations occur, but when properly submitted determinations are requested... just crickets...

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    Pm if interested in selling one
    I'm either confused or ​missing something? Are you actually soliciting the purchase of an illegal machine gun on an open internet forum?
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  7. #147
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    They are for sale right now from the retailers website. I don't think that's a genuine letter and I can't find another copy of it anywhere.

    Nm guess I don't need one
    Last edited by Gaujo; 08-13-2021 at 07:08 AM.

  8. #148
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    They are for sale right now from the retailers website.
    That RBT is currently operating outside the law, enables you to do same? I highly doubt that would stand as a valid defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    I don't think that's a genuine letter and I can't find another copy of it anywhere.
    It's genuine...that you choose not to recognize that is irrelevant.

    Beyond currently being illegal...you might want to take a look at RBT's Waiver and Release page. There won't be any forthcoming refunds...
    hkg3k
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  10. #150
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    The fact that they are still selling them seems like it could land some people from the company in jail. When I saw they were still for sale I assumed that letter must be a fake because WHO WOULD DO THAT? I'm not surprised they are ripping off the buying public based on them never seeking a letter and their shady design and sales tactics, and it follows logically that they will probably turn over those sales records to the ATF without a fight. I note they require shipping addresses to match billing addresses, so they have all the owner's info digitally tied up with a bow on it. If you also own NFA items have a good plan, because you don't want to loose those items.

    Back to the trigger, do we have any idea what specifics of the mechanism the government objects to here? I'm not able to fully follow that court case as the links require a login.
    Last edited by Gaujo; 08-13-2021 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #151
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    https://theinfidel.co/blogs/news/rar...ase-and-desist

    Check out their response letter to the ATF

    This sheds some light on why things are happening the way they are

  12. #152
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    I wish RBT the best of luck...but I don't think they have any chance at prevailing.

    I also think the BATF letter was confusing (all the talk about $200 tax stamps) and should have spelled out exactly what the BATF's position is - that these are deemed post 1986 machine guns that are not transferable and must be destroyed / surrendered and the company must turn over all sales records....if that's in fact where they are headed.

    Reminds me of a letter I once received from the IRS that stated I owed them something but not much beyond that.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  13. #153
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    Despite all the bluster in the response letter...the one huge problem RBT has is that their trigger function depends on a full auto part (bolt carrier) and thus the "combination of parts" language in the determination letter...IMO. Can you say unintended consequences with M16 bolt carriers in AR15s going forward?

    I will say this...they have a huge set of balls to defy the C&D order -and- at the same time, apparently actually ramping up their marketing to empty their shelves as quickly as possible.

    I don't think this will turn out well for RBT or those who have purchased the triggers. Like it or not...this is the wrong administration and the wrong political climate in which to make such a stand IMO.
    hkg3k
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  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    The fact that they are still selling them seems like it could land some people from the company in jail. When I saw they were still for sale I assumed that letter must be a fake because WHO WOULD DO THAT? I'm not surprised they are ripping off the buying public based on them never seeking a letter and their shady design and sales tactics, and it follows logically that they will probably turn over those sales records to the ATF without a fight. I note they require shipping addresses to match billing addresses, so they have all the owner's info digitally tied up with a bow on it. If you also own NFA items have a good plan, because you don't want to loose those items.

    Back to the trigger, do we have any idea what specifics of the mechanism the government objects to here? I'm not able to fully follow that court case as the links require a login.
    I would venture to guess that unlike "binary triggers" which fire on pull and release, the RB trigger only requires constant rearward pressure on the trigger (even thru the "forced reset" action) to enable continuous fire.....

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villafuego View Post
    I would venture to guess that unlike "binary triggers" which fire on pull and release, the RB trigger only requires constant rearward pressure on the trigger (even thru the "forced reset" action) to enable continuous fire.....
    It's still only one shot fired for each pull of the trigger, exactly the same as any semi auto trigger, bumpfire stock, binary trigger, etc.


    With the monkeys at the ATF logic need not apply. They are just making up their own laws and rules for which they do not have the power to do so. If Congress says it's a MG, it's legally an MG. If the ATFs says so, it's an opinion that they force as law.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhurst View Post
    It's still only one shot fired for each pull of the trigger, exactly the same as any semi auto trigger, bumpfire stock, binary trigger, etc.


    With the monkeys at the ATF logic need not apply. They are just making up their own laws and rules for which they do not have the power to do so. If Congress says it's a MG, it's legally an MG. If the ATFs says so, it's an opinion that they force as law.
    Actually it's not the same..... we'll have to agree to disagree on the reasons why....
    I guess we'll see what happens.....
    Last edited by Villafuego; 08-13-2021 at 02:34 PM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villafuego View Post
    Actually it's not the same..... we'll have to agree to disagree on the reasons why....
    I guess we'll see what happens.....
    You have a point. A machine gun is a gun that fires multiple rounds by "a single function of the trigger". A binary trigger has 2 functions, this thing you just do a constant pull, which you could argue is a single function.
    Last edited by Gaujo; 08-13-2021 at 07:47 PM.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    You have a point. A machine gun is a gun that fires multiple rounds by "a single function of the trigger". A binary trigger has 2 functions, this thing you just do a constant pull, which you could argue is a single function.
    A single function of the trigger, not a single function of your finger. The trigger is returning forward to reset, and your finger is returning it to the fire position for each shot. How is a lever performing the reset action different legally from a spring?

    Something like a crankfire with an electric screwdriver running it is considered an MG because they define trigger as the part that initiates firing, in this case the switch on the screwdriver. The trigger is still initiating firing in the forced reset unit, unless they can successfully argue your finger is now the trigger!

    Personally, I'm waiting for someone to modify a TENS unit so I can attach it to the muscle that moves my index finger and dial it up to 600 RRPM! Eat your heart out Jerry Miculek!

  19. #159
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    I have a feeling the RBT folks will put up a damn good fight. They appear to have extremely competent legal representation. Furthermore, I'm certain the manufacturer expected this, and if so, they probably have a good "battle plan" on how to handle it.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweersa View Post
    I have a feeling the RBT folks will put up a damn good fight. They appear to have extremely competent legal representation. Furthermore, I'm certain the manufacturer expected this, and if so, they probably have a good "battle plan" on how to handle it.
    Fighting the Feds is not a great plan.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

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