Bullpup MAC10-22

[DoubleStamper]

Stop drooling it's not real. Yet.

So I'm thinking about the Tenko determination right, and the issue seems to be ATF on their bullshit. In the interest of getting what I want (a .22 that has mag dumps like a truck dumps dumps like a truck) I keep thinking that a dedicated .22 might be the ticket. 3D printing can get us most of the way there, so how feasible is it to designed an upper receiver which satisfies the following:

A: can only function when attached to a F/A capable MAC-10 lower
B: can run a reasonably common .22LR magazine. 10/22 would be ideal? No reason to add excess bulk with a 15-22 or Ceiner mag

In my mind's eye, it uses the magazine well as an index point (maybe a buffer inserted into the mag well) and the "upper" attaches using the stick fixture, and runs magazines just in front of the pistol grip. There's likely going to be a lot of wasted space but that should make things easier? And if it's going to attach by the stock points and mag well, no reason it can't run a simple trigger bar from the forward trigger and grip back to the actual FCG right?

Help me obi wan MACnobi.

[skoda]

Have you looked at the Fleming 22LR uppers? While a common and compact magazine is a good idea I think that with Mr. Lage saying that the market for his wonder kit is saturated you might find that the market for yours is even smaller. I would look to using the American 180 275 round pan magazines. That way you get a lot more ammo and it's very different than past offerings. There were one or two prototypes made but nothing ever got to market (check Thompson Machines and I think Tactical Solutions. Also someone here made one). Ignore people saying that the mags are a pain to load - sure they are but that's to load 275 rounds. It's a pain to load 275 rounds in any magazine. I had a semi-auto American 180 and it wasn't so bad to load if you use the loading tray. Of course a belt fed would be the non plus ultra but that gets involved and expensive. Tippman Arms made M-16 belt fed uppers and stopped after a while.

As others have mentioned, you only have to take a lot of uppers and put them against a board with a loaded magazine, pull the bolt back and let the fun begin without a lower. Of course it's kinda stupid and useless for a crime spree but it seems to meet the definition of an MG by itself. One has to wonder why the Lage Max31 uppers are allowed and other are not. Maybe there was a reasonable person at FATB the day they reviewed that one.

[DoubleStamper]

If I could find a Fleming I'd give it a shot. At this point the only thing I can find aside from standard uppers is an AMP-10 for Lage money.

[A&S Conversions]

Go to https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/product/00531 and check out the AM15. Tactical Innovations makes it. It is my understanding that Tactical Innovations has made or is making an upper for the M11/NINE based on this design. Of course as PP with the Tech Branch C-clamping an angle iron to the back of the Tenko, that would be a real challenge for the open bolt upper to not fire more than one round.

The biggest trick would be to make the upper only fire while mounted on a Mac style RR. Most any mechanical device could be defeated. The question is to defeat the mechanical devices, how much does that look like a Mac style RR? I have some ideas and am working with our engineer to implement them. Things look very dark right now.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

[DoubleStamper]

That's why I'm thinking that it might be necessary to utilize the magazine well to house a functional part, which might alleviate the angle iron and vice trick.

[Uniquesnd]

I had this same idea last night when trying to visualize an AR upper on my lower. What if you put a spring loaded hammer on a faux magazine that way you could keep the floating firing pin and just use the trigger to release and catch the bolt?

[A&S Conversions]

I had this same idea last night when trying to visualize an AR upper on my lower. What if you put a spring loaded hammer on a faux magazine that way you could keep the floating firing pin and just use the trigger to release and catch the bolt?

So how would you time the hammer release? And with the hammer in the magwell, where is the AR buffer and spring going to fit behind the magwell?

Scott

[BuffDragon]

who was it that made the sabre/lage style 22 that ran with 10/22 mags?

or, basically take the cmmg 22 kit approach and marry it to a max 11/15 somehow

[DoubleStamper]

I had this same idea last night when trying to visualize an AR upper on my lower. What if you put a spring loaded hammer on a faux magazine that way you could keep the floating firing pin and just use the trigger to release and catch the bolt?

The way I was thinking was maybe making the "adaptor" two pieces that need the walls of the RR and a dummy magazine in a mag well in order to be held together. I need to get a look at some trigger geometry, although I know a guy who worked at an 07 rebuilding machineguns for a bit who might help.

I need to go stare at my MAC lower and an AR lower. I'd be tickled pink if I found out a CMMG kit would run in a 10/15, that would be worth the money too.

[thelastdinosaurs.com]

If I could find a Fleming I'd give it a shot. At this point the only thing I can find aside from standard uppers is an AMP-10 for Lage money.

I own both the Freming and AMP-10. The Fleming will probably never fire again. I’m not interested in selling either, but if you want any reference pictures I’ll do what I can to help you get a .22 kit designed. The AMP is incredibly heavy.

[Uniquesnd]

I would like a .22 kit as well if someone takes up the challenge

[Uniquesnd]

I’m thinking you would have to build something that interfaced with the magazine?
Maybe shorten an AR15 BCG and put a recoil system on it like a Sig MCX?

[rybread]

10/22 is good enough if it can accommodate one of these.

[fortyfive1911a1]

I have no dog in the fight, but I concur that 10/22 mags would be the gold standard for any 22 LR fed upper these days. Especially with the factory Ruger 25 round mags and various drums available.

[DoubleStamper]

I agree, and I'm surprised Lage didn't do that when they had the 10/31 and MAX31 designs approved and the first Blackdog 10/22 drums became available, much less the GSG 110rd drums. It just seems like a very natural next step when you already have a forward magazine port designed for drum mags.

[theduke]

@ the time...way back when

The argument was ..Why buy the x15 to convert a 9mm gun to a 223 upper to a 22 insert...because 22 kits WERE avl.

Or convert a 9mm gun to an AR type 9mm upper.....derp

Now the table has turned...will a AR type 22 kit fit in the x15.....someone will figure it out.

Quite possibly the reason the m11/9 22 kits are no longer made...

work with whats avl and make it happening.

[strobro32]

I don't consider 10/22 mags to be the gold standard of 22 mags. There are a lot of different makers. The feed from different positions. They are hard to clean. The ejector is on the mag and they have loose tolerances which effect ejection, especially on sub guns.

The 110 round ATI mags have there own problems. Loading takes longer than the 180 drums. They also break easy. The AM180 drums also have their own problems.

I would want S&W 15-22 mags for 22 SMG. If someone made a Fleming style side feeding upper or a bottom feeding upper, I would want it the 15-22 mags.

[Uniquesnd]

I don't consider 10/22 mags to be the gold standard of 22 mags. There are a lot of different makers. The feed from different positions. They are hard to clean. The ejector is on the mag and they have loose tolerances which effect ejection, especially on sub guns.

The 110 round ATI mags have there own problems. Loading takes longer than the 180 drums. They also break easy. The AM180 drums also have their own problems.

I would want S&W 15-22 mags for 22 SMG. If someone made a Fleming style side feeding upper or a bottom feeding upper, I would want it the 15-22 mags.

I agree 15-22 pattern is the best and most reliable.

[mak91]

With all the political nonsense, crappy winter weather and a raging virus in an effort to keep from going insane I have pretty much locked myself in my man cave and decided to work on some things I have always wanted. One project was this, a dedicated 22lr upper for my m11. Since anything with its own mag well will need the blessing of the atf I decided to use something that would fit in the existing mag well of the m11, Richard's 40 round 22lr mag. I've finished the 3d models and 3d printed a prototype. May not mean much but I can cycle rounds by hand so I think its a good sign. Just started the process of making hard parts to see if it will really run. I designed the bolt to where it should also work in the smaller m11 with the larger mag well. At some point I'll see for the m10 if Richard's mag will work using the mag well insert already available. If it does than I am sure something could be made for it as well. One step at a time. As always I am open to partnering on development.

[strobro32]

Good job.