UZI Talk Forums
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Question about C&R eligibility

  1. #1
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Near Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,767

    Question about C&R eligibility

    I have a High Standard .22LR pistol made in 1969. I have been asked if it is C&R eligible.

    Perusing the online list published by the BATF reveals it is not on the list...but it IS 51 years old and collectible. It is not clear to me that it is C&R eligible.

    I'd appreciate your comments.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  2. #2
    UZI Talk Supporter
    LotsaTiques's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Cape Cod
    Posts
    193
    Over 50 years old it does qualify as a C&R Scott.

    David

  3. #3
    UZI Talk Life Member
    hkg3k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottinTexas View Post
    I have a High Standard .22LR pistol made in 1969. I have been asked if it is C&R eligible.

    Perusing the online list published by the BATF reveals it is not on the list...but it IS 51 years old and collectible. It is not clear to me that it is C&R eligible.

    I'd appreciate your comments.
    From FAQ on the BATF website https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

    Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age.
    hkg3k
    Browning, Maxim, Vickers
    Beltfeds: Real Machineguns

  4. #4
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Gaujo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    3,441
    Quote Originally Posted by LotsaTiques View Post
    Over 50 years old it does qualify as a C&R Scott.

    David
    Common misconception

  5. #5
    UZI Talk Life Member
    hkg3k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    Common misconception
    Whaaat? David is correct. I'll post again this direct quote from the BATF FAQ:

    "Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age."

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics
    hkg3k
    Browning, Maxim, Vickers
    Beltfeds: Real Machineguns

  6. #6
    UZI Talk Supporter
    LotsaTiques's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Cape Cod
    Posts
    193
    Scott’s High Standard, being 50+ years old qualifies, 100%, as a C&R. This is no misconception by any stretch of the imagination.

    David

  7. #7
    Registered User Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,614
    Just think about it - a bunch of MAC10s and similar guns are rolling over into C&R status.

  8. #8
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Near Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
    Just think about it - a bunch of MAC10s and similar guns are rolling over into C&R status.
    Unfortunately NFA rules trump C&R so I don't think that does anything to expedite the transfer.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    364
    Not my comment and I don't know how accurate it is but below is a quote from a Reddit post about C&R FFL benefits.


    "You still have to pay a tax stamp and file a Form 4 on C&R NFA Firearms. The difference is that once the Form 4 is approved, it transfer directly to you instead of an intermediate FFL/SOT. This is true for interstate transfers as well.

    EDIT for additional clarification:
    You can avoid paying for 2 stamps if the firearm you're looking at is NFA and C&R and registered on a Form 4 from out of state. Normally an NFA registered on a Form 4 would have to transfer to an FFL/SOT in your state with a Form 4 + $200 tax stamp then the SOT would have to file another Form 4 + $200 stamp to transfer the firearm to you. You can eliminate the FFL/SOT intermediary and do only a single Form 4 and $200 stamp directly to you."

  10. #10
    Registered User Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,614
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottinTexas View Post
    Unfortunately NFA rules trump C&R so I don't think that does anything to expedite the transfer.
    As TSPC points out, someone with a C&R FFL can receive C&R firearms across state lines. As noted, this can allow one to skip the first transfer and related tax for a gun coming from an out-of-state individual. It also avoids the time it takes for the first transfer. In the past, ATF has sometimes taken several months for the initial transfer to the buyer’s in-state FFL/SOT.

    There’s also just something about having the mail man hand deliver your new machine gun to your front door (you always want MGs shipped Registered Mail anyway, right?)

    Another one that people sometimes overlook is that a C&R FFL is licensed to move C&R guns in “interstate commerce”. That means they can take C&R guns across state lines without a 5320.20.

    As more guns (including NFA firearms) automatically gain C&R status, the $30/3 year C&R FFL looks better and better, even if the golden age of surplus guns is past.

  11. #11
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Gaujo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    3,441
    I am very sorry, I misread! I thought he said over 50 doesn't qualify! Yeah for sure semi auto > 50 years old firearms are C&R. I've actually tried to convince sellers of this and it's a pain.

  12. #12
    UZI Talk Supporter
    Gaujo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    3,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
    As TSPC points out, someone with a C&R FFL can receive C&R firearms across state lines. As noted, this can allow one to skip the first transfer and related tax for a gun coming from an out-of-state individual. It also avoids the time it takes for the first transfer. In the past, ATF has sometimes taken several months for the initial transfer to the buyer’s in-state FFL/SOT.

    There’s also just something about having the mail man hand deliver your new machine gun to your front door (you always want MGs shipped Registered Mail anyway, right?)

    Another one that people sometimes overlook is that a C&R FFL is licensed to move C&R guns in “interstate commerce”. That means they can take C&R guns across state lines without a 5320.20.

    As more guns (including NFA firearms) automatically gain C&R status, the $30/3 year C&R FFL looks better and better, even if the golden age of surplus guns is past.
    If a c&r gun is at the dealer on a form 3 out of state, can it go straight to form 4 to a c&r holder out of state?

  13. #13
    Registered User Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    If a c&r gun is at the dealer on a form 3 out of state, can it go straight to form 4 to a c&r holder out of state?
    To restate your question, are you asking if a C&R FFL can receive a C&R firearm in interstate commerce?

  14. #14
    UZI Talk Life Member
    hkg3k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    If a c&r gun is at the dealer on a form 3 out of state, can it go straight to form 4 to a c&r holder out of state?
    Yes...A C&R holder can receive a C&R MG from an out of state dealer or individual. The out of state individual (seller) doesn't have to be a C&R holder.
    hkg3k
    Browning, Maxim, Vickers
    Beltfeds: Real Machineguns

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    741
    There are also some States that only allow C&R MGs and other NFA stuff to be privately owned, or restrict ownership to "licensed collectors".

  16. #16
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,300
    The only firearm purchase I have made with my C&R FFL was a reactivated Savage built M1A1 that had been reactivated by a dealer out of state. The gun transferred directly to me via Form 4. Because a C&R FFL is for collecting firearms, all transfers using a C&R FFL would be via Form 4. Form 3 transfers are for Title II dealers or 0702 Manufacturers as they typically would be transferring the firearm to a retail buyer. Like sales tax, the retailer would tend to collect tax from the retail buyer. So if there is a buyer or a seller involved in a transfer there would be a Form 4 transfer. If the transfer is between commercial entities like Manufacturers or Dealers, the transfer would be Form 3 no tax paid.

    Scott
    Last edited by A&S Conversions; 09-12-2021 at 10:27 PM.

  17. #17
    UZI Talk Life Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    571
    " and in its original Configuration"

  18. #18
    UZI Talk Supporter
    LotsaTiques's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Cape Cod
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaujo View Post
    I am very sorry, I misread! I thought he said over 50 doesn't qualify! Yeah for sure semi auto > 50 years old firearms are C&R. I've actually tried to convince sellers of this and it's a pain.
    Not a big deal Gaujo, not to worry. I have a C&R too and I know what you mean trying to convince a seller to ship a gun that's a C&R to you. Very frustrating, especially if it's a good deal.

    David.

  19. #19
    Registered User Garrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,614
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC MAN View Post
    " and in its original Configuration"
    Always check the actual text of the law or regulation. ATF has published misleading or incorrect info at times, and this is one example of that. You can find the C&R regs at 27CFR § 478.11. The regulations contain nothing about “original configuration”.

    I believe ATF has import restrictions for some firearms that require “original configuration”. And this has at times been applied erroneously to C&R firearms currently in the US.

    A 50-year-old firearm is C&R in any configuration, as defined. Correct application of those definitions may vary.

    YMMV

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Please consider becoming an UZI Talk Supporter.