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Thread: Can You Legally Convert a Semi-Auto Open Bolt MAC 10 to Full Auto?

  1. #21
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    OK, it it has an approved form 1 and would be transferred to you on a form 4, then it is a legal transferable MG. You would not be "converting" it, you would just be removing the semi-only limiter. No different than buying a full auto M16 that has an AR15 trigger group in it currently, the receiver is the MG.

    I have no idea why such a thing would exist though. Form 1s are for tax paid making registrations, the folks who made the commercial open bolts also sold full autos so if they sold them as registered MGs they would have initially been on a Form 2 and then when transferred to the buyer (assuming they are not an SOT) on a Form 4 tax paid transfer. The only way it would be on a Form 1 is if you were buying from the original private individual who made an open bolt semi auto after the cutoff date and registered it as an MG. Why do that when a FA parts kit is essentially the same cost and you're paying the $200 extra just so you can have an inaccurate bulky semi auto copy of something you just got authorized to make?

  2. #22
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    hhhmmm Yep. What SS said.

    You either found a unicorn or got a bunch of research to do.

    when it makes no sense..it usually has a certain smell

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady View Post
    OK, it it has an approved form 1 and would be transferred to you on a form 4, then it is a legal transferable MG. You would not be "converting" it, you would just be removing the semi-only limiter. No different than buying a full auto M16 that has an AR15 trigger group in it currently, the receiver is the MG.

    I have no idea why such a thing would exist though. Form 1s are for tax paid making registrations, the folks who made the commercial open bolts also sold full autos so if they sold them as registered MGs they would have initially been on a Form 2 and then when transferred to the buyer (assuming they are not an SOT) on a Form 4 tax paid transfer. The only way it would be on a Form 1 is if you were buying from the original private individual who made an open bolt semi auto after the cutoff date and registered it as an MG. Why do that when a FA parts kit is essentially the same cost and you're paying the $200 extra just so you can have an inaccurate bulky semi auto copy of something you just got authorized to make?
    Yeah that's exactly what i meant. It seemed odd to me too. I called the seller, he said he got it from a guy who worked at RPB, who had it registered and transferred to him in '82 after the cutoff date. He said only a few were made by different companies after the June cutoff, and most were just turned to full auto anyways, since they were labelled as MGs.

    I should have specified from the start, but now I'm confused as hell and don't feel like playing with fire. Thx for all the info y'all, sorry for the confusion. How do i close this thread or delete it? Or you can keep it open for other with the same question.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by theduke View Post
    hhhmmm Yep. What SS said.

    You either found a unicorn or got a bunch of research to do.

    when it makes no sense..it usually has a certain smell
    Yeah I'm just going to stay far away from it. I just wanted another MAC for my son or my buddy to shoot when we go out, but I'm fine with the one i have now.

  5. #25
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    I had this same question some time back, the members here educated me on the subject.

  6. #26
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    If you can get it for less that $6000 buy it and convert it. It's a cheap shooter MAC. People make new machineguns to this day, they do it on old registered receiver tubes and side plates (Stemple guns, DLO plates and tubes, Norrel triggers, etc.)

    But I would sure scrutinize the gun and paperwork and the seller to make sure it is what the seller is claiming and I'd make sure that I could get my money back if the ATF denies the transfer. Anyone can fake a form 1 and cut a stamp loose from an old registration form that is no longer valid and paste it on the fake form.

  7. #27
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    The thing is if the seller is the second owner it would not be on a Form 1, it would be on a Form 4. RPB was an 07/SOT so if they made and registered it they would put it on a Form 2. The only way it would legally be on a Form 1 for the seller is if he personally registered it prior to May 86.

  8. #28
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    Ask to see the Form 1. That's completely reasonable. If it doesn't have his name on it, then no dice. Also, it should indicate "machinegun" on the form.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankmyway View Post
    Yeah that's exactly what i meant. It seemed odd to me too. I called the seller, he said he got it from a guy who worked at RPB, who had it registered and transferred to him in '82 after the cutoff date. He said only a few were made by different companies after the June cutoff, and most were just turned to full auto anyways, since they were labelled as MGs.

    I should have specified from the start, but now I'm confused as hell and don't feel like playing with fire. Thx for all the info y'all, sorry for the confusion. How do i close this thread or delete it? Or you can keep it open for other with the same question.
    I don't have much to add that wasn't said, but if you do it, submit the form 4 and have the money in escrow until it's approved.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by A&S Conversions View Post
    To be clear, it is my understanding that the Firearms Protection Act did not ban the ownership of of machineguns to private individuals or entities.
    FOPA made all machine guns illegal. It then carved out 2 exceptions, those lawfully owned prior, and those transferred to/from .gov.
    NFA Firearms: In A World Of Compromise, Some Don't.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    Ask to see the Form 1. That's completely reasonable. If it doesn't have his name on it, then no dice. Also, it should indicate "machinegun" on the form.
    Yeah I'll definitely ask him, but either he made a mistake and he meant Form 4, or he faked the paperwork, which it doesn't seem like something he would do, but you never know

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    If you can get it for less that $6000 buy it and convert it. It's a cheap shooter MAC. People make new machineguns to this day, they do it on old registered receiver tubes and side plates (Stemple guns, DLO plates and tubes, Norrel triggers, etc.)

    But I would sure scrutinize the gun and paperwork and the seller to make sure it is what the seller is claiming and I'd make sure that I could get my money back if the ATF denies the transfer. Anyone can fake a form 1 and cut a stamp loose from an old registration form that is no longer valid and paste it on the fake form.
    He's selling it for $2000, which is about a quarter what i paid for my transferrable Mac 10, which is why it sparked my interest.

    I also saw an incomplete Mac 10 lower on GunBroker a long while back, which the seller claimed was registered and transferrable. It was bent, welded, had the Cobray logo engraved, and the holes drilled, the only thing it was missing was the magwell welded on. It ended up selling, and i was too skeptical to buy it.

    You guys know anything about the legality of that?

  13. #33
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    99% of legal or not is dependent on the paper that comes with it. Stemple cut some holes and a slot in some plain tubes and legally registered a couple thousand MGs that BRP is still selling. A bent and otherwise complete lower minus a magwell should also pass muster as changing them out is popular. If ATF approves the transfer it's legal, basically. Which is why an escrow situation until the paperwork is approved is a good idea.

    The 1% is the stuff that fell through the cracks, like registered receiver UZIs with a slotted bolt and the restrictor bar still in place. Some limitations on those, but few outright denials of previously transferred MGs at this late date.

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