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Thread: AR15/M16 .22 upper using 10-22 mags

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    AR15/M16 .22 upper using 10-22 mags

    A friend of mine developed a AR15/M16 upper that uses 10-22 mags out the side and ejects out the bottom. The bolt has rollers and adjustable sear trip.
    The ATF has ruled the upper a firearm and it has a full patent. The first production uppers will be ready for sale in a few weeks. He kept this quiet until he got the ATF letter and patent done. It is called the "ROGAR 15"
    made by RW BAIN firearms LLC. in Emmett Idaho. We did 750 round end to end mag dumps today and it ran great. I will post a U tube video in a bit.

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    will it work with a Lightning Link?...Beemer

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    we didnt test it with a link but I would have to think no because the bolt uses the lower trip, we did test DIAS and pin trip lowers.

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    Given the recent ruling by the ATF on the BRP XMG upper, using this with a RR, LL, or RDIAS would almost certainly be classified as creating a new, post sample, MG - i.e., bad juju. Seems to be that upper = non-firearm, OK, upper=firearm, no go.

    http://www.brpguns.com/xmg.htm

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    Any idea on cost?

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    It cant be a machine gun because it needs the M16 lower fire control to run it. It only got ruled a firearm because the mag will lock onto it. Cost is $800 retail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdogmachine
    It cant be a machine gun because it needs the M16 lower fire control to run it. It only got ruled a firearm because the mag will lock onto it. Cost is $800 retail.
    The XMG upper referenced was also ruled a firearm for the same reason - it contains the feed mech. When on a semi AR-15 received, it will function in semi only. When used with an RR or RDIAS, it would function correctly in full auto. For years people bought and used them on RR's or with an RDIAS without a further thought, but ATF shut that down early this year.

    I know that applying logic to any decision by the ATF might be folly, but from a functional perspective, they are nearly the same. I.e., both "uppers" are considered firearms.

    BRP neglected to publish the full letter, but the notice on their site (linked above) is below. This was all over various boards (including here) when announced, the general consensus being that the differing factor here is the status of the "upper" as a firearm. The registered part essentially becomes a "conversion device" for the new firearm (the upper) and the ATF only permits conversion devices to be used on the firearms they are originally intended for - i.e., you can't try to use an AR RDIAS in a completely different family of gun.

    UPDATE 1/3/2009: We were recently notified by BATFE in a letter dated 12/23/08 that the XMG upper receiver assembly may only be used with semiautomatic lower receivers unless registered on an ATF Form 2 as a dealer sales sample by a licensed manufacturer and Special Occupational Taxpayer. We're seeking clarification on this issue and direction on possible modifications to the existing design. If you have any questions regarding this ruling, please contact BRP CORP at 301-807-5234.

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