10mm magazine options

[ericthered]

Been kicking around a project in my head. Thinking about putting together a 10mm PCC. The only thing I am not super interested in designing from scratch is the magazine, if there is a good mag design out already. I do not want to use Glock mags. I want to use vertical mags, or canted forward. So the only mag I am aware of is the Stribog SP10A3 mag. Which max capacity is 20rds, which isn't great, but it looks pretty conducive to reverse engineering/3d printing. Anybody have experience with them? are they lousy mags? or is there a better option?

 

[root]

No experience with them.
You can use 41 A&E mags from the uzi or GG mags with the lips tweeked in a bit.
Only problem with that is if you are using a AR lower.
Then you need to buy one of the three Mfg that make the AR greas gun lower.
The GG mag it's self is to wide to fit the mag well.
I know you said you don't want glock mags but a Kriss vector 10mm mag gets you 33 rnds.
Same as a GG mag loaded with 10mm but the glock mag fits a standard AR lower.
Straight from scratch lower I'd go with the GG mag.

 

[atfsux]

The only thing I'm aware of that fits your desire is the mag used in the HK MP-5/10 (and also the LWRC SMG, although LWRC never made a 10mm version). But current prices run from $100-$150 each, and are discontinued,...so the supply situation will only get worse. (HK must have a raging stiffy over that.)

 

[A&S Conversions]

To me, the best 10mm mags are the HK MP5-10/40 30 round mags. Double stack, double feed. I love the 10 mm PDW host guns I have. The bonus is those mags can be used for both .40 S&W or 10 mm. I don’t know as the same can be said for Glock. Special Weapons made some knock off HK MP5-10/40 mags. The first generation glossy finished mags are fragile and don’t work well. But the second generation ones with the textured surface, they made work very well. I bought a bunch when they were blowing them out.

As far as something that will fit a standard AR magwell, there was a guy that would strip the extra reinforcement off the top of a Grease Gun mag and then squeeze them in a vice just enough to fit into the AR magwell and add a knotch to catch the mag catch. The follower also would need some modification for the narrower 10 mm round to get them to stagger properly.

The other AR option is the UMP mags. There is a 30 round 10 mm mag but they are very expensive like the MP5-10/40 mags. But I do believe they are narrow enough will fit in an AR magwell with an adapter.

Most PCCs in 10 mm that I have seen use Glock mags. There are extensions to get the Glock mags to 30 rounds. There is also an aftermarket manufacturer that makes 30 round mags that fit Glock magwells. But like Thompson mags, double stack, double feed are so much better IMHO.

I have both a CMMG radial delayed upper and a direct impingement upper. I use them with MGI modular lower with either a Grease Gun magwell or a custom Thompson magwell based on a 9 mm magwell adapter and an early MGI standard magwell that has extra thick magwell walls so it has the clearance for the wider Thompson mags. It even has a last round hold open feature that can be activated by the Thompson follower.

I have thought about modifying some Thompson mags for 10 mm to use with a 10 mm DI upper I have so I could use it with the Thompson magwell. I really like having a last round hold open. But I have so many other projects. Of course the Tenko is the top priority. Everything else hinges on that. Good luck with the PCC 10 mm project.

Scott

ETA, I don’t understand why HK wouldn’t do more runs of the MP5-10/40 mags. There is still a market for them. I wonder what happened to the SW tooling for their MP5-10/40 mags?

 

[cvasqu03]

If you're willing to do some experimentation, you may want to check into VZ24/26 magazines. They were chambered for 7.62x25 which is a bit longer than 10mm, though they also have a smaller diameter. In fact, the case head is more in line with 9mm, but as some 9mm mags have been known to work with 40S&W, which is essentially a shortened 10mm, they may be adaptable. The mags are double stacked and hold 30rds, and since there aren't that many firearms that use it, surplus mags are plentiful. They also cant slightly forward (I think I measured it at 5 degrees once, but that was based on an image). You could also get VZ24/26 part kits if you wanted to salvage the magwell from one.

Just a thought.

 

[ericthered]

Thanks for the input guys. My first thought had been the 10mm HK mags. The price was the main drawback. I ordered a grease gun mag, will see how that works out. Tweaking feedlips and modifying followers is no big deal. I like the mag catch style on them as well, which is a bonus. It is strange in my opinion the lack of 10mm magazine options that are for pcc's. Imo that is where the cartridge really shines.

 

[root]

For new GG mags these work great.
Pretty much all I use on my M10.
I like them because they are new, used to be cheap when I purchased, no mods needed in my M10, and drop free.
I can buy 10 surplus guide lamp GG mags and only get two out of the bunch that fit in the mag well tight, or need some kind of mod to make them work.

M3 Grease Gun Magazine

The M3 Grease Gun Magazine is a newly produced version of the iconic military original. We've produced hundreds of thousands of these magazines with more than a decade of experience behind each magazine. You'll find our M3 Grease Gun Magazine will fit and feed flawlessly in any firearm designed...

www.keepshooting.com

I've been meaning to buy a AR lower that takes greasegun mags and do a 10mm DI pistol or SBR for the last 5 years just keep putting it off.
I like 10mm and have a few of them.

I've noticed with my G40 and the factory 6 inch barrel I feel the recoil in my bicept not my wrist due to the straight blowback and me loading the 10mm to the original Norma specs.
It's a weird feeling, non or my other 10mm semi handguns do that.
Or my much more powerful hand cannons.

 

[slimshady]

Thanks for the input guys. My first thought had been the 10mm HK mags. The price was the main drawback. I ordered a grease gun mag, will see how that works out. Tweaking feedlips and modifying followers is no big deal. I like the mag catch style on them as well, which is a bonus. It is strange in my opinion the lack of 10mm magazine options that are for pcc's. Imo that is where the cartridge really shines.

"Does it take Glock mags?" Part of the practicality of having a PCC is not only caliber compatibility with your handgun but also magazine compatibility. Some designs like the Ruger have multiple magazine type compatibility for that very reason.

10mm didn't go mainstream popular until maybe 10 years ago or so? If it stays popular long enough someone will start making suitable magazines.

 

[ericthered]

@root that is where I bought mine from. Glad to know the new manufacture are good.


@slimshady yeah, standardized magazines are where I think everybody should head. As far as handguns, I think that despite me personally not being a glock fan, that glock mags should be the standard. But for not through the grip mag applications, I think angled mags are awkward to reload, and are ugly. Which for 9mm pcc I think colt mags are the way to go.

 

[atfsux]

I wish the FBI contract with Auto Ordnance back in the late 80's had been more successful. It would be awesome to have Tommy mags in 10mm in good supply. ((Not to mention Tommyguns in 10mm,...woo hoo!!) Those few 10mm drums and sticks that bled out into the free market in the 90's are like gold or platinum now.

 

[root]

@root that is where I bought mine from. Glad to know the new manufacture are good.


@slimshady yeah, standardized magazines are where I think everybody should head. As far as handguns, I think that despite me personally not being a glock fan, that glock mags should be the standard. But for not through the grip mag applications, I think angled mags are awkward to reload, and are ugly. Which for 9mm pcc I think colt mags are the way to go.

Yup AR stocks belong on AR rifles
Glock mags belong in glock pistols.
And I an a glock fan boy.
They just look weird in PCC guns.

I love the 10mm got my 1st taste in the early 90's with a friend who owns a Colt Delta Elite.
Liked it so much bought my own.
Now I have a few 10's.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Not only look weird, but Glock mags are awkward to change in a nongrip magwell because the magwell is canted back towards you. So the gun needs to be tipped up for a straight shot into the magwell. A vertical magwell is much easier, at least for me.

I think Thompson mags could be used for 10 mm with a modified follower. I much prefer the last round bolt hold open feature of the Thompson mags compared to the Grease Gun mags without it. Double stack double feed is so much easier to load. It is hard to adapt the bolt hold open feature of the Glock mags to a standard AR lower. I bought my radial delayed blowback .45 upper from CMMG as a pistol with a Glock magwell because I wanted the upper. I don’t think that I have ever used the Glock lower. I have the Glock 21, but I want 30 round mags for subgun matches.

As far as a 9mm AR PCC, I prefer the MEAN ExoMags. The Colt mags “geyser” if the mag gets dropped. The ExoMags will go in standard mag pockets and I like the idea of 40 round mags down loaded for easier mag changes.

Scott

 

[atfsux]

When I built my CMMG Banshee upper, I was originally gonna use an Uzi/Colt mag adapter. But instead, as a temporary measure just to get it running and play with it, I went with the MEAN Endo conversion mags with some Magpul bodies. And now I'll never go back! The long smooth feed chute in the MEAN mags makes them the most reliable feeding mags EVER, no matter how wide or blunt the hollowpoint or tip. And to me, this is why it is a mistake to limit all pistol caliber conversions to just the AR15 envelope. I have for decades felt that using the AR10 lower for a .45acp conversion would facilitate using Thompson mags. But now I want to see MEAN make a version of their design for the AR10 Magpul mags to duplicate how well they work in their 9mm originals. I'm certain if the demand existed, they could make a 10mm/40 version of their ExoMag for the AR15 envelope.

 

[ericthered]

Biggest issue with Thompson mags, is (this is theory as I havent run one) that the track the mag rides in seems like it would be awkward for reloading quickly.
I have some mean mags for 9mm. They are pretty reliable, i have quite a bit of wear on the ejector. I use them for just test stuff. They are a pain to load compared to the Colt mags. As far as I know, there is not a speed loader for them either.
@atfsux that is actually a pretty interesting idea to use AR10s for conversions. The extra length could also equal increased bolt mass.

 

[A&S Conversions]

If the end of the channel for the BHO spine is flaired, the spine of the mag goes into the channel much easier in the M1A1 I used to have. The Thompson mags that I use for the custom MGI magwell, I have squared off the flaired feed ramp where the rounds come out of the mag to make the mag channel in the magwell tighter. The 9 mm feed ramp of the magwell adapter we used as a starting point, has been shaped and polished for the larger diameter .45 rounds. To feed the .45 rounds into the barrel extension. Both the DI upper and rotary delayed upper barrel extensions have a center feed ramp in them.

Scott