.380 in baby mac with CFWa bolt

[Gaujo]

I saw a couple vids a while back, has anybody else gotten this setup running with .380? Love to see some more vids! Are just the original small magwell mags still the only way to do it?

Also, does anyone in the mid atlantic area have a CFWa gen 2 bolt I could try with my big magwell M11A1? I made a .380 upper with a 8" barrel, and I'd like to try it with zmags with the newer bolt. I built it thinking the extra pressure might help with cycling, but it doesn't run with my gen 1 CFWa bolt.

 

[rybread]

https://youtu.be/lDjQg3MTge4

Video of 380 on my M11- just a barrel swap out- max-31 with CF bolt & econo can suppressor.

 

[llamasabound]

I don’t have a large magwell .380, but the CF bolt is a joy in my small magwell. Forgive the potato quality video, all I could find on my phone. There’s a companion comparison of the lighter original cast bolt in a side charger (no knob weight) and a high back pressure can. I think the CF bolt is slightly pickier on bullet profile: RN is great, TC hangs up. I suspect the original bolt solves that problem with sheer velocity.

https://youtu.be/758FR0uWIps

https://youtu.be/or3xs7unDRc

Just noticed one is vertical and one is a potato. Main point stands: the CF bolt tames the baby mac, and unsuppressed all the more so.

 

[A&S Conversions]

As I recall from previous posts, the generation 1 A bolt would run 9mm in a large magwell M11. But the generation 1 A bolt would not run .380 reliably in a small magwell gun. The refinement of the second generation A bolt has allowed reliable .380 function in the small magwell gun. But I don't believe that anyone has gotten a CF(W) bolt to run reliably in a large magwell M11 in the .380 caliber. The smaller .380 cartridge needs the magazine feed lips to support the round closer to the chamber than the large magwell 9mm mags do, when using the slower cyclic rate CF(W) bolt. The support is less critical with the faster bolt speed of the stock steel bolt. I would think to get reliable .380 function in the large magwell M11, the smaller .380 mags would need to be adapted to the large magwell so the .380 cartridge would have the support to feed reliably. Good luck with the project.

Scott

 

[LawBob]

M11a1 ghost upper w CFWa bolt original
9mm though

https://imgur.com/a/SbBGA6I

 

[Vegas SMG]

The A bolt runs like a top in the small mag well M-11 and M-11 A1.

Scott is correct. The 9mm magazine feed lips don’t hold the smaller .380 round long enough to reliably feed the rounds into the chamber at a substantially lower rate of fire versus the OEM at over 1700 rounds per minute.

I’ve tried the OEM Zytel mags, shockwave, converted Madsen, converted PAM2, and none get the job done. Additionally, I tried 8 to 10 different brands of .380 ammunition. The best I’ve been able to do without a malfunction is about two dozen consecutive rounds of .380 in a large magwell gun M-11 A1. It’s usually much less than that.

 

[Gaujo]

The A bolt runs like a top in the small mag well M-11 and M-11 A1.

Scott is correct. The 9mm magazine feed lips don’t hold the smaller .380 round long enough to reliably feed the rounds into the chamber at a substantially lower rate of fire versus the OEM at over 1700 rounds per minute.

I’ve tried the OEM Zytel mags, shockwave, converted Madsen, converted PAM2, and none get the job done. Additionally, I tried 8 to 10 different brands of .380 ammunition. The best I’ve been able to do without a malfunction is about two dozen consecutive rounds of .380 in a large magwell gun M-11 A1. It’s usually much less than that.

Thinking about getting small magwell mags and shimming them or something?

 

[strobro32]

The smaller mags can be made to fit the bigger grips but the mag stop tabs would need to be removed. I would not recommend altering the expensive small mags.

 

[A&S Conversions]

So would someone with both Z-mags and the .380 magazines take a side by side? I wonder if the feed lips of the Z-mags could be extended with weld to make the mags give the support that .380 needs? I would think that such a modification of the Z-mags would make the magazines exclusively .380 specific, as the longer feed lips would hold 9mm rounds for too long, causing feeding problems.

Scott

 

[Offmarksman]

An adapter to use the small mags in a large magwell lower seems like the best way to achieve this. I thought Ftf made reproduction small mags for the .380?

 

[LawBob]

Could probably put an insert in the back of the mags or something. Dunno.

 

[strobro32]

I thought Ftf made reproduction small mags for the .380?

Yes but at 70 a pop, the mags are still too expensive to grind the mag stops off. With out the mag stops, there is a risk to bend the ejector rod when inserting the mags.

 

[SecondAmend]

From pages 317-318 of 'The MAC Man': "Although the steel magazines of the earlier MAC and RPB .380 caliber Model 11's won't fit or function in the later manufacture SWD .380 caliber M11-A1, problems with the SWD Zytel magazines made steel magazines more desirable. To address the problem, a company doing business as AAA Sales and Services, offered a magazine well adapter to use the steel M11 magazines in the SWD M11-A1. The adapters were only available for a brief period circa 2003."

 

[strobro32]

The brief time period the adapter was offered is probably a sign of the adapters reliability.

The smaller metal mags could fit the larger grip without removing the tabs but they would need to be located at the rear of the grip. That would create the same or > problem of the distance from feed lips to the chamber. That would destroy the benefit of longer feed lips, especially since the problem with the 9x19 mags is the slower ROF of A bolt.

 

[SecondAmend]

The brief time period the adapter was offered is probably a sign of the adapters reliability...

Or maybe, like the Lage .22 conversions, the Shockwave S31 mags, the Vanguard uppers, the ARES stock, the Uzi folding stock adapters for MACs, C&S drum mags, and probably countless other products; the market was just too small to economically support the manufacture and sales. The MAC platform landscape is littered with short lived aftermarket products.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with or financial interest in any vendor or manufacturer; and I am not a competitive shooter or a blogger who receives any form of compensation for endorsements or favorable public or private comments. Use of vendor and/or product brand names, if any, is for informational purposes only.

Best of luck.
MHO, YMMV, etc. Be well.

 

[Offmarksman]

Even if you had to grind the stop off of a mag or even (2), it’s not that big of an investment if it allows one to reliably shoot .380 with an A bolt (if one is really interested in shooting .380). I might do one during the boring winter months, just to see if it can be done. The adapter idea seems good, but as strobo points out, the mag needs to stay in its forward most position so the feed lips can hold the round long enough to make the transition to the barrel…

 

[A&S Conversions]

Since I don't own a M11 or M11A1 I have no idea, but what about a 3D printed shim that could take up the space of the larger M11A1 magwell? If the shim snapped onto the .380 mag, that adapts the individual mag to the larger A1 magwell. While $70 mags are pricey, If you want slow fire .380 and you own a large magwell gun, modifying some mags sounds much cheaper than buying another M11 with a small magwell. If a solution could be found, it would also open up slow fire .380 for the M11/NINE. I don't own a M11, but I do have a M11/NINE. I would be interested in a .380 upper if I could use a CF(W) bolt. Just a thought.

Scott

 

[MAC MAN]

AAA Sales had some of those at Knob Creek last time. He may bring them this Knob Creek shoot.

 

[Gaujo]

AAA Sales had some of those at Knob Creek last time. He may bring them this Knob Creek shoot.

Some of what Mac man? If you are talking about the AAA sales magwell adapters, can someone share their email or phone number with me? I'd like to buy one. I don't understand how it could adapt small mags to a large magwell 11a1 with it still having over-insertion tabs, but I would really want one all the same.


Say I buy some $70 .380 mags from FTF, grind off the over-insertion tabs, and shim it to fit or find that magwell insert. Am I still wasting my time if I have a Gen 1 CFWa bolt?

PS I just bought a FTF mag. Here we gooooo!

 

[Concorde]

So would someone with both Z-mags and the .380 magazines take a side by side?

I'm not sure if this tells you what you want, but here they are: