41P/41F---Will This Bring More Buyers?

johnthedford

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Noticed in another thread one poster stating some people believe that 41F, now being settled, will have the effect of bringing more shooters and collectors into the market. We all know the market has been strong for the last couple of years. I am not 100% convinced this is all due to 41P but certainly some demand is. How many buyers do you know that are now willing to enter the market strictly due to 41F? Does the elimination of the CLEO signoff carry any weight? Does the requirement for fingerprints and photos for entities matter? How about the zero interest rate policy and people looking for a good ROI? Can't get it in the bank but MG's...at least the promotion of high returns, may be somewhat of a driving force. Thoughts?
 

TheColtCollector

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I think it will actually bring less buyers. I got a trust and started to get MGs/SBRs/suppressors because it made procuring them so easy. when I caught wind of 41 P/F in November I took a loan and bought everything I ever might need. I don't want to go through the extra hassle of the additional red tape of finger prints/photo ids.

I think the NFA market has become so popular in recent years to due trusts cutting through some bureaucratic red tape, now that it is neutered i think the extra stuff will dismay potential would be buyers
 
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damcv62

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There are quite a few markets where you can't get CLEO sign off. So I believe 41f will actually bring new buyers into the market. Of course if people were smart they would be buying stuff now to have at their dealer for when the date comes they can submit things and not need the sign off. So who knows. Long run I think it'll bring more buyers to the market.
 

West_Texas_King

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Here's my take on it...

If you were to look at the growth of NFA sales as a graph, you'd have the average increase steadily rising for the past 5 years.
This relatively straight line is interrupted by brief spurts of panic buying every time 41P made the circles.
When 41F finally goes into effect, you can expect a plateau to form right then and there, as the majority of people who are buying NFA have already been doing so, perhaps exceeding their means to get in before the deadline, and will stop for a time.
This overshadows the much smaller growth of sales by people who haven't bought any NFA items to date because of cleo signoff and however else 41F is supposed to help.
I've bought far more NFA stuff than I ever expected to simply because I didn't know how 41P/F was going to pan out.
Certainly a large percentage of NFA sales the past year or two has been a direct result of people with the same mindset.
I still have that mindset to a point, actually...I'm trying to get as many F1's through the efile system because I doubt the average NFA owner will have the chance to F1 anything online for the foreseeable future with all of the new filing requirements.

However, it won't take long before the people who stopped buying before 41F will start buying again.
It's not likely that they'll just stop buying cool things because they need fingerprints and photos, they've already resigned themselves to all the other overbearing requirements for NFA ownership, so they'll eventually resign themselves to prints/photos.
Given a few months, the plateau will once again revert back to an upward trend, perhaps not quite as upward now that there are more requirements to meet and less spontaneous/sale purchases.
I honestly don't foresee any significant or quantifiable increase in NFA sales, but the possibility that it'll have the opposite effect is very possible.
Ask yourself these questions...
Have you ever heard anyone say anything similar to this: "Well I'm just going to wait until 41F goes through before I start buying cool things, I couldn't/didn't want to buy them before with a trust"
Have you ever heard anyone say anything similar to this: "Well I'm just going to buy all of the cool things now before 41F goes through, I can't/don't want to buy them if I have to get fingerprints and photos"
Chances are, you've heard a lot of the latter, but probably never the former.

The bottom line is that people are still going to buy NFA stuff regardless, but I do think it may put a curb on much of the impulse buying for cheaper items like silencers that are used or on sale.
Machine gun market will likely be unaffected entirely for the same reason...
Someone who couldn't have been bothered to get a trust in order to bypass CLEO certification and get what they want is not the kind of person that is going to buy a $10-20K MG once CLEO certification is done away with.
Likewise, someone who is dead set on spending $10-20K for a MG won't really care what kind of steps they have to take in order to get one, so 41F won't change the MG market.

Really, the only actual positive outcome from 41F is the ability to stick it to an anti-gun CLEO without a trust, and in my mind that's not worth the extra hassle and burden on the rest of the NFA community.
 

West_Texas_King

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Those "markets" had the option of a hassle free trust right?

This is why I think the only market increase 41F will see is from super casual/one time only NFA buyers...people who probably felt like a $200 trust was a waste of money just to buy a single rimfire silencer or SBR.
It's really just benefiting the least motivated buyers in the entire market, and whatever sales they drum up probably won't be quantifiable in the long run.
 

ScottinTexas

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I didn't even know about 41P until ~8 months ago. Prior to that I got into NFA because I was bored with the other stuff and I learned about Trusts from folks who were local and using them. A decade ago I experienced the hopelessness of getting CLEO signoff in my city so I ignored the NFA thing until I stumbled onto folks using Trusts.

So my initial purchases were not influenced by the 41P. Two in December/January were directly linked to 41P. Future purchases are unclear due to 41P and the implications for my coTrustees.

So there you have it; in on person you have zero impact, accelerated purchases and then will likely make fewer purchases. Probably net a big 0 for me.
 

Timbuk2000

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Tha "market" will adjust to the new regulations. It always does. Select fire weapons will continue to appreciate due to an artificially constricted supply. There will probably be a buying opportunity, similar to the post Newtown "black rifle" glut, when the cost load of fear purchases is realized. The current UZI SMG market definitely commands a premium for the fear factor caused by 41F. It's like timing the stock market. Dollar cost averaging also works for firearms. Buy right, not rushed.
 

Battering ram NIB

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i dont know what the future will bring after july 13th....but i am one of those people who bought all he could afford specifically to beat the july 13th deadline....i bought all im ever going to buy in my lifetime.

Demand may drop off for a bit after july 13th, but long term i dont see less people being interested in NFA...i see more.....how many FA's are destroyed every month??? judging by how 10,000 dissappeared in since the last time they counted== a couple a month blow up or wives/children chop up dads gun after he dies....supply is going down
 

mtnvalley

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I'll buy less for sure, and it won't be through my trust. My CLEO is fine to sign, but getting prints done here is a PITA and requires several trips to the jail to see if they might be in the mood that day. I MAY buy something individual if I'm really hot for it...but won't multiply the print hassle x my number of trustees.
 

MG34_Dan

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I'll buy less for sure, and it won't be through my trust. My CLEO is fine to sign, but getting prints done here is a PITA and requires several trips to the jail to see if they might be in the mood that day. I MAY buy something individual if I'm really hot for it...but won't multiply the print hassle x my number of trustees.

You do realize you can roll your own prints, don't you? There is no requirement to have a cop shop roll them. Just go slow and roll your own.
 

pa123guns

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I personally don't see more people coming into the market after 41f. With the trust and llc option people that wanted machine gun found a way to purchase them. The area where it may impact some is the suppressor /sbr market. A person may not have wanted to pay the $100 for a trust but even then I highly doubt that made any difference.
Honestly I'm hoping the market settles. I decided I wanted to buy a M11 just before this 41f was released. Talk about bad timing!! Prices have gone insane in my opinion and I'm not talking looking for a deal just not willing to pay the panic price.
 

TexPaul

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My MG and silencer purchases were basically impulse buys made possible by the convenience of gun trusts. I'm glad that I have what I have, but I will not be acquiring any additional items.
 

sig-x

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My MG and silencer purchases were basically impulse buys made possible by the convenience of gun trusts. I'm glad that I have what I have, but I will not be acquiring any additional items.

+1
 

johnthedford

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I am RUSHING to get one in next week. I personally don't want the hassles of fingerprints and photos when I can avoid them. After the new rules take effect, I may end up putting more into my trust and have to deal with the additional legwork.
 

Timbuk2000

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it is easier than you think to get a proper photo and to be finger printed. Walgreens does passport size photos that conform. Any place that does concealed carry classes generally does finger printing. I suspect that some enterprising individuals will do photos and finger printing at gun shows. Life will go on after July!
 
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