Advice for issues with Shockwave magazines

[Rainman76]

Hi All, hoping the experts can help me understand what issue(s) I’m encountering. I bought 6 50 round shockwave magazines about a year ago for my M11/9 running a Lage max 11 MK2 (also about a year old) with Gemtech Viper suppressor, variable buffer (all 3) and Lage gas block. Each mag probably has 1,000 rounds through it. The mags have worked flawlessly right out of the box but suddenly one by one, they are all failing within a month of each other.

Best case scenario is the first round goes down range but bolt does not cycle and round is not ejected. I can rack it and keep firing one round at a time. Worst case scenario is the bolt gets stuck with the expended round inside and the charging handle is nearly impossible to pull back. I have 30 round steel mags from the early 2,000s that continue to work nearly flawlessly. Sometimes the second round doesn’t get loaded but one pull of the charging handle and I’m back in business for a mag dump if desired.

Any ideas on what I should be looking at to resolve the issue? 50 rounds just feels so right so I’m hoping I don’t have to go back to 30 LOL. Thank you in advance for any suggestions on what to look for.

 

[root]

I know nothing of shokwave mags.
With that out of the way it sounds like spring fatigue.

Maybe hit up wolf springs and see what they offer for a comparable replacement.
That would probabably be the fastest, cheapest, fix.
Spring fatigue really is a thing there are some good vids on Utube about it and not all are gun related.

Best of luck fixing it.

 

[HighriseATX]

Might try cleaning the mag, then some dry lube. Did you switch from brass to steel case, bit more friction there. You could add a filler block to create more spring compression (and loose some loading capacity) to test the spring fatigue theory.

 

[Rainman76]

I know nothing of shokwave mags.
With that out of the way it sounds like spring fatigue.

Maybe hit up wolf springs and see what they offer for a comparable replacement.
That would probabably be the fastest, cheapest, fix.
Spring fatigue really is a thing there are some good vids on Utube about it and not all are gun related.

Best of luck fixing it.

Might try cleaning the mag, then some dry lube. Did you switch from brass to steel case, bit more friction there. You could add a filler block to create more spring compression (and loose some loading capacity) to test the spring fatigue theory.

Thank you both! Sounds like spring fatigue is where I need to focus. Cheers!

 

[PDXsparky]

Thank you both! Sounds like spring fatigue is where I need to focus. Cheers!

I think shockwave sells the springs separately if you're interested.

 

[Slowmo]

I am not 100% what you mean by “bolt does not cycle and round is not ejected.” Are you saying the bolt is somehow short-stroking? I’m probably wrong, but if it were a weak magazine spring, I’d expect it to fire and eject the first round fine but then fail to feed the next round, such as having the bolt overrun the next round in the mag.

The failure to eject makes me wonder if you’ve got an ejector problem or if this is maybe weak ammo that can’t overcome the extra drag on the bolt from the spring pressure of the 50rd mags.

Have you checked the extractor to make sure it is clean and not damaged? It might be worth taking it out of the bolt and cleaning the extractor itself and extractor slot. Shooting suppressed pushes a lot of carbon and other crap back into the action that gets into the nooks and crannies to gum up the works.

 

[Rainman76]

I think shockwave sells the springs separately if you're interested.

Thank you and they do indeed! I found them yesterday evening and it made me think they’re well aware the springs need replacing from time to time. I’ll admit I did not know spring fatigue was a thing as I’ve never had an issue with any magazine for any of my firearms, including the steel mags I bought for the M11 in 2001.

I am not 100% what you mean by “bolt does not cycle and round is not ejected.” Are you saying the bolt is somehow short-stroking? I’m probably wrong, but if it were a weak magazine spring, I’d expect it to fire and eject the first round fine but then fail to feed the next round, such as having the bolt overrun the next round in the mag.

The failure to eject makes me wonder if you’ve got an ejector problem or if this is maybe weak ammo that can’t overcome the extra drag on the bolt from the spring pressure of the 50rd mags.

Have you checked the extractor to make sure it is clean and not damaged? It might be worth taking it out of the bolt and cleaning the extractor itself and extractor slot. Shooting suppressed pushes a lot of carbon and other crap back into the action that gets into the nooks and crannies to gum up the works.

Thank you for the response and exactly what I was worried about. On the one hand it seems clear the issue is with one specific set of mags but on the other, I don’t understand why weak springs would lead to the bolt being stuck shut and almost needing to hammer on the charging handle to get it back open. But that also is only happening with one set of magazines. To attempt to directly answer your question, round is firing and bolt stays closed, jammed up with expended round still in it. I’ll break down the bolt today and take a look so thank you! I had this baby humming feeling like the most reliable machine gun on the planet so to be at this point is depressing LOL. The range officers were even commenting “I’ve never seen yours malfunction.” 😢

 

[Slowmo]

Thank you and they do indeed! I found them yesterday evening and it made me think they’re well aware the springs need replacing from time to time. I’ll admit I did not know spring fatigue was a thing as I’ve never had an issue with any magazine for any of my firearms, including the steel mags I bought for the M11 in 2001.


Thank you for the response and exactly what I was worried about. On the one hand it seems clear the issue is with one specific set of mags but on the other, I don’t understand why weak springs would lead to the bolt being stuck shut and almost needing to hammer on the charging handle to get it back open. But that also is only happening with one set of magazines. To attempt to directly answer your question, round is firing and bolt stays closed, jammed up with expended round still in it. I’ll break down the bolt today and take a look so thank you! I had this baby humming feeling like the most reliable machine gun on the planet so to be at this point is depressing LOL. The range officers were even commenting “I’ve never seen yours malfunction.” 😢

That doesn’t sound like magazine springs to me.

Did you change ammo by chance (even if it is a different lot of the same ammo)?

How do the case heads and primers look on the fired rounds that get stuck? Any high pressure signs? I wonder if you might be getting bullet setback that’s causing high pressures. Can you tell if the feed lips have spread on the mags? That can affect the angle they feed at.

Have you cleaned the barrel and chamber really well to make sure there isn’t some kind of buildup in the chamber?

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/50-round-shockwave-weak-springs-for-the-rof.99393/

I’ve given up on my 50s

 

[Rainman76]

That doesn’t sound like magazine springs to me.

Did you change ammo by chance (even if it is a different lot of the same ammo)?

How do the case heads and primers look on the fired rounds that get stuck? Any high pressure signs? I wonder if you might be getting bullet setback that’s causing high pressures. Can you tell if the feed lips have spread on the mags? That can affect the angle they feed at.

Have you cleaned the barrel and chamber really well to make sure there isn’t some kind of buildup in the chamber?

I’m changing ammo all the time LOL. Besides that I haven’t really paid attention to impact on the bullet but am getting more determined to fix this so I’ll start paying attention. I did measure the gap between the feed lips and on the shockwaves, there’s no space when I insert a mag loader but with my original mags there is a millimeter (unscientific assumption) of space.

https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/50-round-shockwave-weak-springs-for-the-rof.99393/

I’ve given up on my 50s

Damn good link. Thank you!!! I’m going to try tuning (I’ve done it half assed up to this point) with the marker suggestion and after that move to a Lage 31 if needed assuming the drums are not unobtanium. At least I have my holiday project! Cheers and Happy Holidays to all!

 

[nklf]

It sounds to me like a dirt/rust problem on the inside of the mag. Take one of the mags apart and see what they look like. I don't see how a bad mag could cause the bolt to lock in the forward position, but there is a lot going on in the firing sequence. Possibly increased bolt drag on the mag is causing slow extraction combined with a rough chamber is the problem. Just guessing here. Since the problem is only with these mags, I would look inside and make sure the follower is moving freely in the mag.

 

[Slowmo]

Thank you and they do indeed! I found them yesterday evening and it made me think they’re well aware the springs need replacing from time to time. I’ll admit I did not know spring fatigue was a thing as I’ve never had an issue with any magazine for any of my firearms, including the steel mags I bought for the M11 in 2001.

You could try the gun with the VBS buffers removed just to see if it helps for diagnostic purposes. The faster the ROF, the less time the magazine has to move the next round into feeding position, which requires a stronger spring. If you take the VBS buffers out, the ROF will decrease, and your magazines may be able to keep up.

I’m still not sure what explains the bolt sticking closed. If you could post some pictures of what the primers/caseheads look like on the stuck rounds, it might help. As a tapered round, 9mm cases are usually pretty easy to extract.

 

[Rainman76]

I’ll definitely break down all mags and take a look and also remove the VBS to level set. Funny enough I went and looked at the last mag failure after the helpful responses here and the next round (left magazine) has clearly been impacted by something. The mag on the right is the correctly functioning 30 round.

 

[Rainman76]

An update for anyone interested and pictures are included. I Removed the VBS and found I enjoy the groupings and manageability better so that’s a win! Original mags again ran flawlessly but have two types of malfunctions with the shockwaves. The first looks to clearly be a spring issue as multiple rounds are pointed downward in the magazine as bolt stays open after firing first round. The second mag again resulted in a completely locked bolt and damage to the next round on deck after successfully firing the first round. As one commenter suggested, I think I’d rather stick with 30’s than have to sort these mags out now and likely again in the future. Cheers for the input and Happy Holidays!

 

[root]

Ya that just looks messed up.
Kinda sad they are rather expensive mags to have such a short life span.

 

[Gaujo]

When 6 mags all stop working at once it makes me think it might not be a mag issue at all. Did you change ammo?

 

[Rainman76]

When 6 mags all stop working at once it makes me think it might not be a mag issue at all. Did you change ammo?

Just the normal ammo rotation as new batches come in the door to replace the stuff I’ve shot. It’s always Blazer or Federal and the same ammo is being used across dozens of PCC’s, pistols, m11 30 round mags etc… with no issues. To be clear each mag started having issues within weeks to a month of each other. They did not all fail at the exact same time. I believe 1 still works but I’ve lost track of which one as more and more failed.

 

[A&S Conversions]

It is best practice to number your mags. If there is a problem with one, you have a reference number to differentiate that one in the pile.

Scott

 

[scottMO]

I use shoot n see ‘target dots’ to temporarily mark any mags that are giving me problems.

Buy an extra new spring or two. Try a bad mag, two or three times and then immediately replace the spring, then use the exact same Ammo on the same range trip and see if that fixes your problem.

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

Springs could be the issue but that’s still confusing. Why would the springs fail so quickly? My mags failed in a similar incremental but fairly quick fashion also