Are there post-ban Action Arms imports?

[C-4]

I was at a gun store yesterday and they had two full-size semi-auto Model B Uzi's. One was a folder for $1650 and the other had a wood stock and was going for $1450. Both were Action Arms imports. Did they actually have post-ban rifles ie. were there some AA that were still 'in port' when the ban came thru that had to be reconfigured to post-ban configuration?

As far as price, I thought they were pricey considering what I've seen on the internet.

 

[RoverDave]

No, all Action Arms imported UZI Carbines came in before the 1989 assault weapons import ban.

Those prices are high.

 

[BUCK29]

I bought a Vector semi last week and I beleive it was marked action arms and it was also stamped .45 acp although it is a 9mm. The dealer I bought it from bought 3 of them just alike from vector recently (since the price drop). They list them on there web site as post bans but the dont mention anything about the stampings on the gun.

Buck29

 

[RoverDave]

I know Vector is using surplus IMI receivers on their semi's. I didn't realize that they were also stamped Action Arms. Where did Vector put their stamp on the gun? Is it on the middle of the left side, above the selector switch like on the full auto's?

C-4, I'm still guessing the ones you saw were original IMI pre-bans. You could put wood stocks on them, even though they didn't ship that way. If they were Vector semis, then they were WAY over-priced.

 

[C-4]

If they're still there when I go back, I'll have to enquire more about them.

If you owned an AA import, and by definition they are all pre-ban guns since they didn't import after the ban, could you put a folding stock on it? Even if you could, like you said, they are way overpriced given what you can find on the internet. I still think they are intrinsically worth more than a Vector just because an AA import is more 'original'. But that would only be important to a collector as opposed to a shooter.

 

[chrisp929]

vector is using the post ban new helvietia 45 recievers to build post ban IMI reciever uzis .. the 45 imi recievers are stamped AA on them just like any preban model b or a reciever .. and there are NO vector stampings on them i can see anywhere on the reciever .. they also use hebrew FA lowers . but tig over the 'FA' letters and weld a blocker bar in the lower to make is semi .. and of course use all the right USA parts to make is legal .. you ask how i know ? .. hmm .. i have one ... heheh ...

 

[chrisp929]

other side ..

 

[chrisp929]

tigged over FA hebrew lower .. made to semi ..

 

[chrisp929]

no big surprise .. NHMCO SAC CA ...

 

[chrisp929]

the girls group hug ! ... ok ok im gettin atta control sorry . hehe ..

 

[chrisp929]

small note .. when i took this vector built imi post ban apart for these pics .. everything .. all the nuts and bolts and everything .. were on TIGHT .. WITH RED LOCKTITE .. vector DOES NOT JOKE AROUND when they build a gun ... again .. another rant for Vectors products and customer service .. vector rules ..

only thing is now .. i only have blue locktite to replace the red with .. oh well . it should hold .. as my imi preban 9mm model b had NO locktite on it when i took it apart .. :heavy

 

[C-4]

Thanks for posting that, chrisp929. Those pictures are awesome.

So from what I understand, Action Arms imported pre-ban Model A and B IMI Uzi's 'as is' without modifying them.

I guess my confusion is with the 'origin' of the Action Arms receivers Vector is now using. Are these IMI receivers that AA imported before/after the ban and are only now being used to build post-ban Uzi's, hence the Action Arms markings? Or are these receivers currently being imported from IMI? I own a pre-ban Model A AA IMI and I ordered a post-ban semi Uzi SBR from Vector about 1 1/2 weeks ago. I'm waiting on my dealer to send them FFL/SOT. I don't know how much longer after that Vector will ship out the Uzi. Then it will be the long agonizing wait.


Hopefully not too long. Then, unless a catastrophy occurs in Congress, I'll have the option to put a folder on Sept. 13 (Yes, I've been writing/emailing like crazy). Well, that's the big plan anyway.

 

[chrisp929]

i had a very very very long drawn out talk with the gentleman who owns and operates D&D sales .. aka .. www.uziusa.com .. is knows EVERYTHING about the whole uzi situation .. from what he says .. when the semi auto assault import ban was ALMOST in place .. IMI put ALL their uzi stuff together for the US market .. boxed it up and sent it to the USA .. including many UNBUILT .45 cal model b recievers ... ( which is what is in the pic ) .. so when they came over .. it was RIGHT at the time the ban JUST started .. ATF let the recievers in but it was agreed that they would be post ban recievers as the guns themselves were not BUILT before the import ban ... so .. a BUNCH of these recievers came in and now can be built into post ban uzis .. with enough US parts .. there are more details in the story im not mentioning as i forgot them .. but .. bottom line these are GENUINE IMI .45 cal recievers .. that cant be built to preban specs .. BUT .. that doesnt stop HUNDREDS of people in the US from doing it .. take a look at www.auctionarms.com or www.gunbroker.com .. check some of the uzis for sale .. the ones that are illegally built .. are .45 cal recievers .. with the serial number blacked out .. or this one guy on gunbroker who keeps posting .. wants like 3 thousand for an illegal post ban build .. you can tell its illegal .. no one wants to show the serial numbers .. go to www.uziusa.com .. the guy shows which serial numbers on the .45 cal recievers are post and which are pre ... here is an example ..
pasted from his site ..

"POST BAN IMPORTED RECEIEVERS":
ALL IMPORTED BY N.H.M. CO. SAC. CA.
IN THE YEAR 2,000

Meet your BATF legal post ban assembly parts count and avoid 5 years felony conviction, fines and attorney's fees.

All Known IMI /ACTION ARMS MOD 45 RECEIVERS imported BY NHM. CO. SAC. CA.
were
(IMPORTED in the year 2000).

All post ban IMI/Action Arms imports stamped with N.H.M. CO. SAC. CA. on bottom rear. (NHM. CO. is the actual importer). They are post ban imports.

If the import stamp is illegally removed and they are sold as a preban import; they are illegal assault weapons.

If they are assembled in violation of 18 U.S.C. 922(v)(1) cited below; they are an illegal assault weapon.

LOWEST TO HIGHEST "known legal PRE 1989 BAN "
IMI Mod 45 IMI Action Arms import firearms:
SER. #'S SA/000001 to SA/005034

MISSING SERIAL NUMBERS FOR IDENTIFICATION AS LEGAL PRE BAN RECEIVERS
SA/005035 to SA/007484

KNOWN POST BAN N.H.M. CO. SAC. CA. IMPORT SERIAL NUMBER STATUS:
IMI/ACTION ARMS MOD 45 SER #s SA/007485 to SA/009963 and ABOVE
are known post ban imports in the year 2000

(Approximately 6,120 known imported in the year 2,000)

"UNKNOWN IMPORT STATUS"

IMI/ACTION ARMS MOD 45 SER.#'S SA 005034 to SA/007485
PRE OR POST BAN LEGAL ASSEMBLY STATUS UNKNOWN!!

We would appreciate all customer updates on MISSING ser#'s listed above which are requested to compile a complete public data base for unknown seral # range AND DISTINCTION BETWEEN "legal" pre and post ban MOD 45 IMI imports. Your assistance for all FFL dealers and customers would be appreciated for posting to this web site.


All Mod 45 IMI Action Arms import receivers with N.H.M. SAC. CA stamped on the bottom or with the known post ban serial number range listed above must follow post ban assembly requirements and meet all post ban BATF requirements

Email to contact@danddsales.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

this should help ..

 

[C-4]

Thank you!

 

[RoverDave]

Chris, Nice pictures. Thanks for posting them.

The conclusion to your story is accurate (that these are original IMI receivers and are post-ban) but the details that D&D gave you are questionable - in my opinion. I had a similar conversation with Ralph at Vector and his version of the story was more believable. According to him, IMI made these receivers in batches (not surprisingly) and they had extra SA 45 receivers already marked for Action Arms. (Just like they has Action Arms marked UZI Pistols that were surplus and later imported by Springfield Armory.) When the import ban occurred, IMI was stuck with them since they weren't selling semi-autos in many parts of the world. At one point IMI struck a deal with a South American country and sold them the receivers and promised to supply parts to build them into complete guns. For some reason the parts were never supplied and this country lost interest in them and sold the receivers back to IMI. Again IMI sat with them until Ed Faust from New Helvetia arranged to purchase and import 2,000-3,000 of these receivers. Ralph bought a bunch of them for bulding post-ban semis. D&D bought a bunch of them too.

I'm kind of confused about your D&D story. You said he told you that the receivers came in right at the time of the import ban (1989) but the text you pasted (from the D&D site I believe) said that all the new Helvetia receivers came in in 2000 (which matches Ralph's story.) His story doesn't seem to add up.

The other thing that bugs me about the D&D story is that he claims the ATF allowed in the receivers in 1989 but called them "post-ban" The problem is, "post-ban" usually refers to the 1994 AWB, which didn't even exist in 1989, so I doubt the ATF was calling anything "post-ban" back then.

Moral of the story - if you have a New Helvetia receiver it's original IMI production and good quality. It should also be considered post-ban. Buyer beware.

 

[chrisp929]

RD .. D&Ds story is vague to me . i didnt pay much attention to it as our conversation was long ... and drawn out .. the guy is great but LONG winded and i didnt take notes .. i bet half of each story is true .. most importantly ... they are factory IMI . and thats whats counts to me ..

 

[Jimf5]

If these are considered post ban and when the ban sunsets are they O.K. to change to folding stocks? I have one of the recievers that I am going to build up soon. It will be semi and have the right amount of U.S.A. parts.

Jimf5

 

[RoverDave]

If these are considered post ban and when the ban sunsets are they O.K. to change to folding stocks? I have one of the recievers that I am going to build up soon. It will be semi and have the right amount of U.S.A. parts.

Jimf5

Yup, folding stocks would legal on them just like any other US assault weapon. As you pointed out, the key is to have enough US parts in the gun to make it legal.