ATF is adding 4,000 new transferable Machineguns to the registry.

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Dirk Hawthorne

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If there are any pre-sample M16s, they would represent a very minuscule fraction of the pre-sample numbers.

Since M16s were produced in the USA, and were not only in current production in the 1968-1986 time frame, but were also available free from the Govt to LE agencies in the years after Vietnam, the likelyhood of any M16s of any variety being imported before 1986 is super slim.
And the term "imported" is key here. Because pre-samples are only classified as such because they were imported after 1968 and before 1986.
In that time frame, all of the M16s produced by colt would have been considered "transferable" because they were made in the USA.
After 1986, anything imported or manufactured domestically would be considered a "post-sample".

Every couple of years, I'll read up on these various classifications and then I forget again. I don't buy any of those guns so I just blip over the ads when I see them.

There was a company called "Interarms" owned by a guy named Sam Cummings who re-imported a vast amount of WWII guns during the 1960s and 1970s, and they sold a crapton of greasers and Thompsons to police departments.

That guy was basically was quartermaster for all the civil wars and revolutions in Africa in the 1960s. He went all over Europe after WWII and bought up all the war surplus arms and ammo and sold it to banana republics.

If I remember correctly, his daughter was a rich socialite who killed her husband.

b80367  1976 ad.jpg
 

Dirk Hawthorne

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If I were in the market for a MG and I had the choice between a true transferable that was made in the states and registered before 1986, like a Vector UZI, or a Mod A conversion, or one of the newly re-classified, pre-sample/now transferable, imported factory IMI UZIs, I'd buy the ex-pre-sample. Even if I had to pay a third more.
I'd do that happily.
Even knowing full well that the transferable classification could change at any minute and devalue my UZI by more than half, that wouldn't deter me in the slightest.
Because I don't buy things like firearms for investments, I buy them because they are fun and cool. And I don't want look-a-likes or clones, I want the "real deal".
If I want a 1911A1, I'll look for and buy a real US military one, even though I could get a brand new Tisas 1911 clone that's just as good quality and appearance wise, but for 10% of the cost of a "real" one.

Since the difference between a pre-sample and a post-sample is that if you structure your license correctly, you can keep your pre-samples after you drop your SOT, and there is no way to keep your post-samples after you drop your SOT, it makes the risk more tolerable.

So if these pre-samples that became transferable were sold to individuals, and the ATF decided they made a mistake, the chances are very good that the new owners of them would be allowed to retain them and the only difference is that when/if these new owners decide to dispose of them, they could only be sold and transferred to an active SOT.
Unlike if this happened with post-samples. In which case, the new, non-sot owners would most likely have to destroy, surrender or sell them to current SOT licensees.
So in my case, as someone who would love to own "real deal" MGs, I would definitely take the chance and buy one. Because, as I said, I'm not getting one for an investment, nor to hand down to my heirs. So I don't care what the value or transferable status of it is in the future. I just want one for my own amusement.

Interdasting points there. If what you say is true, it mitigates at least some of the risk away.

When I'm buying a shooter, I don't care if it's a clone or not. My Vector runs pretty much 100%. I rarely have jams, even when I run 400 rounds through it at a time. I would actually rather have the Vector than an IMI gun, because I burn so much ammo with it.

Some clones do have problems, dimensional errors and so forth. Like west hurley Thompsons. Some of them won't run at all without re-machining.

A good middle ground is a rebuilt USGI gun. Collectors don't want them, but they make tip-top shooters. My M1A1 Thompson is a RIA rebuild and I have a few spare USGI barrels for it.

I don't buy guns as an investment, but someday when I kick the bucket, I would like my family to be able to cash out.
 

hkg3k

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There are people far worse than me. (If you can believe that!) I heard about a guy who went to the store and forgot to get 9v batteries. He promised himself he would remember and just forgot. He has to live with the shame and humiliation to this very day, decades later.

Yep...more garbage. At least you didn't treat us to another dissertation on your career with rust and educating us with your certitudes on dealing with the "government."
 

arch stanton

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Yep...more garbage. At least you didn't treat us to another dissertation on your career with rust and educating us with your certitudes on dealing with the "government."
Exactly I hate to say it but we have the clone of Huggytree/ Battering Ram now
 

arch stanton

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I would rather have my Vector than an IMI this shows what you actually know zero Dirk or Doug on the other board.You are a very arrogant and an opinion pushing individual that won't listen to others. Circle back around and read your posts. Now if you have an issue with what I am saying then go complain to the site owners.
Most of the threads you participate in have gone way off track nobody cares what you do for a living and how knowledgeable you think you may be. This is why Huggy Nozzle has been run off.

I wish Vegas were still around he would be in on this for sure
 
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